|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,016
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,016 |
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by Ignorant Thug:
All thats does not mean jack until he wins a Superbowl ring. There are countless players who were superstars on the field. Players that broke plenty of records but were never able to btain that next level of respect due to them not winning a ring. Shall we start with Barry Sanders or how about Dan Marino?
Manning is good but we shall see how things go in the playoffs. Honestly, I can't stand the Colts(or the Patriots), but I will give credit where it is due.
Ignorant thug, your ignorance is in your spelling, and your thinking. You think that because Dan Marino didn't win a Super Bowl, that he won't be recognized as one of the best quarterbacks to play the game? You can't deny that Barry Sanders was one of the best back, and would be considered #1 if he decided to stick around and take Walter Peyton's record. Too bad it would have taken him a few more years than Walter to achieve that yardage. But honestly, don't go talking smack about the Colts and how they won't win the Superbowl, until it's over. I personally like their chances. Sure, they're defense hasn't really been much to brag about. But ya know what? They still score touchdowns, and they still win games. If they can run up 35 points a game, they are well in contention with any team you put on the other side of the field. And you better know, that Peyton will come prepared come Game 1 of the Playoffs.
Mark
Actually, he's quite right. Sure they were all great players and even considered the best of the best. But the fact remains is that in sports the pinnacle of GREATNESS is measured by championships. Wayne Gretzky doesn't get called The Great One merely because he put up numbers. Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, Larry Bird = Champions vs. Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing = great players, HOFer's, no rings. When you think of the very BEST of the GREAT players, you think championships and MVPs bottomline.
2006 Mazdaspeed6
1997 Yamaha YZF1000R Thunderace
1996 Volvo 850-R
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467 |
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
What a homer! Take a look at their losses and the games that were close. They struggle against decent defenses. If they win the Super Bowl on offense alone they would be one of the very few to do so. Oh and how many teams playoff team on their schedule this year?
Exactly, but he is a Colts "fanboy". Let's see what happens when they face a real team like Pittsburg.
Now I hate America? That is a new one to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Championships mean a lot, don't get me wrong, but they are a bit overrated. Noone will ever say that Rypien, Doug Williams, Hostetler, Dilfer or B. Johnson were ever more than marginal QBs in the league. And how many "great" RBs won championships? Payton did when he was obviously reaching the end of his career. Emmitt obviously. Faulk, yes.
Timmy Smith
Roger Craig
Ricky Watters
Otis Anderson
Ernest Byner
Dorsey Levens
Terrell Davis
Antowain Smith
Jamal Lewis
Michael Pittman
All superbowl winners, not a single one would ever be mentioned in a comparison to Sanders. The only thing that keeps Emmitt in the conversation with Barry is that he did win championships, but with a vastly superior team on both sides of the ball.
There is just too much hype surrounding championships, but it obviously is important to some people.
All that said, if anyone really thinks that Favre is a better passer than Marino, they are truly in denial. When Favre isn't blessed with a superior defense, you can see where his toughness has gotten GB. No where. Granted, they have been able to stay a top the Detroit Lions and Chicago Bears almost every year, but that is an accomplishment similar to saying you graduated kindergarten.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,016
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,016 |
Originally posted by dnewma04:
Championships mean a lot, don't get me wrong, but they are a bit overrated. Noone will ever say that Rypien, Doug Williams, Hostetler, Dilfer or B. Johnson were ever more than marginal QBs in the league. And how many "great" RBs won championships? Payton did when he was obviously reaching the end of his career. Emmitt obviously. Faulk, yes.
Timmy Smith
Roger Craig
Ricky Watters
Otis Anderson
Ernest Byner
Dorsey Levens
Terrell Davis
Antowain Smith
Jamal Lewis
Michael Pittman
All superbowl winners, not a single one would ever be mentioned in a comparison to Sanders. The only thing that keeps Emmitt in the conversation with Barry is that he did win championships, but with a vastly superior team on both sides of the ball.
There is just too much hype surrounding championships, but it obviously is important to some people.
All that said, if anyone really thinks that Favre is a better passer than Marino, they are truly in denial. When Favre isn't blessed with a superior defense, you can see where his toughness has gotten GB. No where. Granted, they have been able to stay a top the Detroit Lions and Chicago Bears almost every year, but that is an accomplishment similar to saying you graduated kindergarten.
Of all the RB's you named, only Terrell can even be mentioned with greatness. And even then, his career was too short to honor what he accomplished. You say that there is a lot of hype surrounding championships, maybe true, but it's still the measurement by which the ELITE are judged.
Sure, you can make an argument for Barry Sanders, Marino, etc. Although they were STELLAR players they didn't win the big one and it somewhat tarnishes their career. Even they wished they had a championship. Barry retired rather than play in mediocrity. Once Barry's records and Marino's records fall the only thing that would remain of their legacy that that couldn't be taken or surpassed, would be a championship.
2006 Mazdaspeed6
1997 Yamaha YZF1000R Thunderace
1996 Volvo 850-R
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,760
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,760 |
Terrell IMO wasn't 'great'. You have lots of people who have a few good or even great years. Great IMO is the ability to produce year after year after year. Reliability is a key factor in that. Terrell wasn't reliable. If he could have stayed healthy then maybe. But, TD will stay only a 'good' RB I think in NFL history. Remember Joe Morris? Had some awesome years with the Giants in the mid 80s had a few injuries and than bam....gone. TD will be forgotten in a few more years. As for too much hype about championships...what else is there in sports? That's the whole reason for playing sports. Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by dnewma04:
Championships mean a lot, don't get me wrong, but they are a bit overrated. Noone will ever say that Rypien, Doug Williams, Hostetler, Dilfer or B. Johnson were ever more than marginal QBs in the league. And how many "great" RBs won championships? Payton did when he was obviously reaching the end of his career. Emmitt obviously. Faulk, yes.
Timmy Smith
Roger Craig
Ricky Watters
Otis Anderson
Ernest Byner
Dorsey Levens
Terrell Davis
Antowain Smith
Jamal Lewis
Michael Pittman
All superbowl winners, not a single one would ever be mentioned in a comparison to Sanders. The only thing that keeps Emmitt in the conversation with Barry is that he did win championships, but with a vastly superior team on both sides of the ball.
There is just too much hype surrounding championships, but it obviously is important to some people.
All that said, if anyone really thinks that Favre is a better passer than Marino, they are truly in denial. When Favre isn't blessed with a superior defense, you can see where his toughness has gotten GB. No where. Granted, they have been able to stay a top the Detroit Lions and Chicago Bears almost every year, but that is an accomplishment similar to saying you graduated kindergarten.
Of all the RB's you named, only Terrell can even be mentioned with greatness. And even then, his career was too short to honor what he accomplished. You say that there is a lot of hype surrounding championships, maybe true, but it's still the measurement by which the ELITE are judged.
Sure, you can make an argument for Barry Sanders, Marino, etc. Although they were STELLAR players they didn't win the big one and it somewhat tarnishes their career. Even they wished they had a championship. Barry retired rather than play in mediocrity. Once Barry's records and Marino's records fall the only thing that would remain of their legacy that that couldn't be taken or surpassed, would be a championship.
Ryan
Trollin!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,106
Addicted CEG\'er
|
|
Addicted CEG\'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,106 |
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Great IMO is the ability to produce year after year after year.
Great also means making your team better. There's a difference between a great player, and a great athlete. Great athletes are remembered for a while for their highlights, while great players will be remembered forever for their all around game. And that's something that has been forgotten, with all of the self centered, big ego'd, money hungriness that's gone on in pro sports for the last 15-20 years. I don't see it getting better anytime soon either.
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,831
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,831 |
Originally posted by mbTDI:
PEYTON F'ING MANNING
that is all 
Well, we'll see how great he is...can he win consecutive MVP awards? Yes, he's got some skills, but consistency is one of the keys to greatness...
A Contour is not just a car, it's an experience
99 T-Red SE Zetec ATX
Born April 16, 1999
98 E0 Silver Frost CSVT
#3175/3565
Born August 21st, 1997
Stored at P.R.T. for the winter
67 Mustang 289 project car
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,106
Addicted CEG\'er
|
|
Addicted CEG\'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,106 |
Originally posted by 99contourdriver:
Originally posted by mbTDI:
PEYTON F'ING MANNING
that is all
Well, we'll see how great he is...can he win consecutive MVP awards? Yes, he's got some skills, but consistency is one of the keys to greatness...
Maybe you missed this long list that Matt typed up showing thing called consistency that you speak of.
Originally posted by MbTDI:
Peyton has the biggest team turnaround in league history (3-13 to 13-3 in 98-99), and the biggest 4th quarter comeback (against the Bucs).
He's well on his way to becoming the 2nd back-to-back MVP winner since... Brett Favre!
He has the TD record that most thought would stand for decades (here's a good article about the achievement), he's the 2nd fastest ever to 200 TDs in his career (behind Marino), and he's thrown for over 4,000 yards in 5 straight seasons, breaking the previous record of 4 held by... Peyton Manning. No other quarterback in league history has had more than 3.
He's on his way to breaking Steve Young's passer-rating record for the season, and he's the only quarterback in history to throw three "perfect games" (a rating of 158.3).
He entered the Hall of Fame's top 20 passer ranking in his THIRD season in the league. He owns a franchise record of six TDs in one game (and this is a franchise, lets not forget, that boasts of Johnny Unitas...) and a smattering of other franchise records.
In 7 seasons, Peyton has 216 TDs and 120 Ints (a 1.8 ratio, with 49/10 this season, a 4.9 ratio). Favre has a 1.65 ratio for his career and 1.64 for the season.
Face it... Peyton is well on his way to being the best passer the NFL has ever seen!
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 709
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 709 |
Originally posted by Ignorant Thug:
[ Shall we start with Barry Sanders or how about Dan Marino?
I don't think many people would argue that Barry Sanders wasn't the greatest running back ever. And if it is being argued its a short list of names that go with it. Payton, Jim Brown, emmit smith and maybe 1 or 2 others. You can be the greatest player in some sports without winning it all especially in football where 22 players are on the field. You can't hold one guy responsible. What more could Barry Sanders have done to make his team better? The guy would rush for 1700 yds and have a 5+ yard per carry average and the team would go 8-8 or maybe 10-6. Same thing for the colts. Tons of offensive weapons but for the past 5 years terrible defense. I would like to see how many times the colts have been shut out in the manning era. I would also like to know their average points scored per game
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 230
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 230 |
Originally posted by mbTDI:
He's on his way to breaking Steve Young's passer-rating record for the season, and he's the only quarterback in history to throw three "perfect games" (a rating of 158.3).
BLAH BLAH BLAH Ben Roethlisberger is all that needs to be said. Manning has 3 perfect games in his career? Roethlisberger already has 1 chalked up in his ROOKIE season (Week 13 (@JAC) 158.0 passer rating. Mind you he is 23 years old! In a few years you won't even be bringing up the likes of Peyton or Favre. He also has 13 straight consecutive wins since starting as a rookie (in case you have been living under a rock the past 13 weeks, i brought you up to speed) The Steelers w/ Roethlisberger at the helm have been undoubtably the best team in the NFL for weeks. New England's winning streak was broken by the Steelers as well as the Eagles undefeated season. And now with this weekends win over the Ravens, the Steelers have home field advantage throughout the entire playoffs. The road to Jacksonville comes through the Burgh. The Steelers are unstopable at home (8-0) and WILL go to the big show...sorry Colts fans  Not to mention the Steelers have the #2 ranked rushing offense in the NFL, the #1 ranked overall defense in the NFL.
Summary: Freakishly good QB that just puts up W's, best rushing game in the NFL (we control the clock and the game), #1 defense in the NFL, home field advantage throughout playoffs (8-0 at home) = ya that about covers every aspect of the game and shows the Stillers are THE dominant team in the NFL. This thread can end now.
Here we go Steelers, here we go, Pittsburgh's gonna win the Super Bowl. One for the thumb nunka
|
|
|
|
|
