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Originally posted by svtcarboy:
A $500 intake will close the power margin between the 6 and Altima, for a combined price lower than the Altima... and the Altima still handles like a boat.
If you think an intake is going to magically make up for a considerable performance difference, please let me know what you're smoking so I can get some.  Unless the 3.0L Duratec engine in the Mazda 6s is dyno'ing 210whp even after the intake mods, it's not coming close to a stock VQ series Altima engine.
Don't get me wrong, as I said I love the Mazda 6s, but as far as performance goes there are stock Alty's running 14.2-14.4@98-100 MPH, no 6 is going to come close to that trap speed even with an intake...
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Originally posted by BP:
this was one of the major reasons i couldn't go with the 6s 5door or sedan. even AUTO altimas/maximas are hitting 14.7x @ 95x totally stock.
Or better...the best stock auto Maxima time on maxima.org was 14.2 ET, no 6 is going to come close to that stock. As for mods, you can't really make that argument because when you add the same mod to the VQ series, you get just as good of a result.
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[qb]imo the mazda definitely has the nicest exterior styling and handling of sedans in it's price range, but when all else was factored for my wants/needs (passenger space, interior niceties, and torque/power) in the 6s came up slow and short. 90% of my driving is highway, 2 lane suburbia, or traffic so the pluses of the mazda couldn't make up for everything else for me.[/qb]
Yes, I like the interior of the Mazda, but in all honesty give the 05 Alty's a serious look, they really improved the interior on the 05's. I think it's just as good as the 6's are now and IMHO the Alty handles just as well. I have no doubt my SE-R version will just as well if not better than any 6 out there, and I came from an SVT which IMHO handled better than both the SE-R and the 6.
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the 05 alti has an improved interior which also helps to close the gap on interior comfort. but if mazda would just put 20-30 more hp/torque in their cars they would pretty much have a monopoly on the segment.
Do yourself a favor and drive an 05 SE Altima before you make your final decision. I think you'll be surprised how good the interior is and performance-wise there's a big advantage for the Alty.
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Quote:
If you think an intake is going to magically make up for a considerable performance difference, please let me know what you're smoking so I can get some. Unless the 3.0L Duratec engine in the Mazda 6s is dyno'ing 210whp even after the intake mods, it's not coming close to a stock VQ series Altima engine.
The intake svtcarboy is referring to is not just an intake. It's also a piggyback that alters your A/F ratios (known as a "MAF Customizer") to produce significant amounts of power. And yes, it does dyno at 200whp -- an increase of 22whp over stock. Not Peak Gain. Gain across the entire curve. And this has been dyno'd multiple times.
We all know that the 3.0L Duratec has a lot of potential, and one of the biggest areas of gain is the piss-poor A/F ratio.
I can't link to the Image, but if you go to HERE and scroll down to the Dyno for "6s MTX HP vs Stock" under the heading "What Gains does the CP-E Intake Give?". Make sure you're not looking at the dyno for the Injen+Customizer.
The intake came out too late in the year for people to go to a track to get track times. But seeing as how I could run a 14.7 with just an Injen that was only doing an average of 7whp across the powerband, I can imagine the CP-E will easily push the Mazda6 into 14.4 territory.
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As for mods, you can't really make that argument because when you add the same mod to the VQ series, you get just as good of a result.
Of course anyone will agree with that statement. The argument is that you can save yourself $4000 by buying the Mazda6 -- more than that if you're talking about an SE-R. You can use a small fraction of that money and bring yourself up to the Altima in terms of power.
And, no, that's not the same argument as "I can put a turbo in my Neon and outrun a Corvette and save $25,000" because those cars aren't comparable. The Altima and Mazda6 are, aside from power otherwise very comparable cars (to most people, there are numerous other reasons why I wouldn't buy the Altima).
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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Originally posted by svtcarboy:
The people unwilling to throw an intake on the car also aren't likely to be concerned about the power difference.
Yes, the intake is "extra money." However, that car at the Nissan dealer next door costs more "extra money" just to get it off the lot. The concept is a fixed price point, not a fixed modification level.
My buddy paid 21k for a 6s 5-door (no leather, etc.) OTD. You can buy a similarly equipped Altima SE for the same price with the current rebates/financing available.
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Originally posted by svtcarboy:
The room differences between the 6 and the Altima aren't as big as the car's size differences (5") would suggest. I noticed no difference in practical seating room. Front head room is the only consistently roomier dimension in the Altima.
Manufacturer:
Headroom: Front - Altima +2.7"(Mazda w/moonroof,Nissan N/A)
Rear - Altima +0.5"
Legroom: Front - Altima +1.6"
Rear - Mazda +0.1"
Shoulder: Front - Altima +0.2"
Rear - Altima +1.1"
Hip: Front - Mazda + 1.7"
Rear - Mazda + 1.1"
Consumer Reports:
Headroom: Front - Altima +2.0"
Rear - Tie
Legroom: Front - Tie
Rear - Altima +0.5"
Shoulder: Front - Mazda +0.5"
Rear - Tie
I'll let features be a matter of personal preference. I didn't see anything the 6 lacked in comparison that are noteworthy enough to recall (OK, now navigation... but you can put one in for what Nissan is asking for it... the car has a place for it.)
The CP-E gives the Mazda6 that +20-30 in the horsepower and torque department.
Please explain what a CP-E is?????
Also, here's what you don't see with those measurements. Note the huge differences the Alty gives in headroom and legroom in the front, which an average height/weight driver won't need, so they move the seat up to compensate, which results in considerably more legroom in the back seat as a result. This is the "real life" advantage in those terms...
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Quote:
My buddy paid 21k for a 6s 5-door (no leather, etc.) OTD. You can buy a similarly equipped Altima SE for the same price with the current rebates/financing available.
I'd like to see how one does that. The TMV for an '04 Altima equipped similarly to the 6s 5-Door is $24,276. There is a $1500 rebate for a total of $22,776. And TTL and you're up to $24,000 -- a difference of $3,000.
I'll grant that a good negotiator can get lower than TMV, but nowhere near $3,000 lower. Hell, the invoice on a similarly equipped Altima is more than the sticker on the Mazda6.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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Quote:
Also, here's what you don't see with those measurements. Note the huge differences the Alty gives in headroom and legroom in the front, which an average height/weight driver won't need, so they move the seat up to compensate, which results in considerably more legroom in the back seat as a result. This is the "real life" advantage in those terms...
Um... The front Leg-Room is a tie (according to Consumer Reports). And while the Altima has more head-room, I don't adjust my seat forwards because of headroom.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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Originally posted by sigma:
The intake svtcarboy is referring to is not just an intake. It's also a piggyback that alters your A/F ratios (known as a "MAF Customizer") to produce significant amounts of power. And yes, it does dyno at 200whp -- an increase of 22whp over stock. Not Peak Gain. Gain across the entire curve. And this has been dyno'd multiple times.
How much is the CP-E mod? So if I add an Injen intake and do a CPU reflash to change A/F ratios then I will accomplish the same thing, and many other Alty SE owners have done just that, and 5-speed models are dyno'ing well over 220whp after having done so. And thank you for proving my point, that even after doing the CP-E mod, you're dyno'ing less than a stock SE 5-speed model Altima does. The cars weigh almost exactly the same (~3250 lbs). Also, the Alty has a considerable TQ advantage, 250 ft/lbs over 192 ft/lbs. That is huge. My point here is that I believe the 6s is a really nice car, but performance-wise the Alty is in a different league stock to stock, and mod to mod. There are many Alty's running solid 13's with basic I/E/H mods. The advantage of the Alty is that is uses a detuned version of the now 298HP VQ series in the 05 G35's and the 287HP VQ series in the 350Z. All we have to do is change the tune and we're up around those numbers N/A. I don't see any better tuned versions of the same 3.0L Duratec runnings some 50 HP greater that you can easily mod up to, and believe me I wish this was the case as it would give the Mazda/Ford folks a lot more to play with.
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We all know that the 3.0L Duratec has a lot of potential, and one of the biggest areas of gain is the piss-poor A/F ratio.
I'd state that any engine has potential if you know what you're doing. The biggest advantage the VQ series folks have is that the potential has already been proven by the manufacturer in higher end model cars and extracting this potential is relatively easy in the Alty series cars as a result. That is a considerable advantage IMHO.
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The intake came out too late in the year for people to go to a track to get track times. But seeing as how I could run a 14.7 with just an Injen that was only doing an average of 7whp across the powerband, I can imagine the CP-E will easily push the Mazda6 into 14.4 territory.
And the same mods push the Alty into the 13's.
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Of course anyone will agree with that statement. The argument is that you can save yourself $4000 by buying the Mazda6 -- more than that if you're talking about an SE-R. You can use a small fraction of that money and bring yourself up to the Altima in terms of power.
You can buy a similarly equipped Alty for 21k OTD if you know how to negotiate and given the Alty currently has a 1500 rebate, all the easier, though I'm not sure if the Mazda 6 also has rebates available right now? Generally though, I'd agree you should be able to negotiate a lower price on a 6 verses an Alty by a couple grand.
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And, no, that's not the same argument as "I can put a turbo in my Neon and outrun a Corvette and save $25,000" because those cars aren't comparable. The Altima and Mazda6 are, aside from power otherwise very comparable cars (to most people, there are numerous other reasons why I wouldn't buy the Altima).
Understood and agreed, and to each his own. I lease my cars and the lease payment on my SE-R wasn't much different than the 6s lease payments so it wasn't a hard decision for me.
Last edited by cjbaldw; 12/24/04 06:59 PM.
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Originally posted by sigma:
Quote:
Also, here's what you don't see with those measurements. Note the huge differences the Alty gives in headroom and legroom in the front, which an average height/weight driver won't need, so they move the seat up to compensate, which results in considerably more legroom in the back seat as a result. This is the "real life" advantage in those terms...
Um... The front Leg-Room is a tie (according to Consumer Reports). And while the Altima has more head-room, I don't adjust my seat forwards because of headroom.
And according to the manufacturer it is a 1.6" difference. For those who don't know, anything over 1" is a BIG difference, that's why the Alty "feels" roomier inside IMHO, because it simply is, especially the rear seats.
Last edited by cjbaldw; 12/24/04 07:00 PM.
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Additional front headroom merely translates into the ability to fit a taller person or a taller person to sit higher. I prefer to sit low, so it's not an advantage for me.
I prefer the Consumer Reports measurements, not because of the results, but because they measure both cars the exact same way. Manufacturers can measure their cars a little differently to get different results.
Out point is dollar for dollar, the 6 can be just as quick as the Altima and outhandle it... at least considering the pricing in the middle areas of the nation.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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