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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 240
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 240 |
Yeah can you believe people are actually fabbing together the custom mounts to swap in the 3800s instead of readily purchasable Chevy 350 V8 mounts in Fiero engine swaps?
The Fieros are in the mid-2,000 lbs range, so not that good of an example. An even better example is the W-bodies they come in (Grand Prix GTP, Regal GS, Riviera Ultra, Bonneville SSEi, Monte Carlo), these are vehicles running the tracks with these modded 3800s with about 3,500 lbs of vehicle weight.
Scott Cook and his 98 Grand Prix GTP with INTENSE Stage 3 CNC heads, INTENSE Stage 3 Turbo camshaft and PT70GTQ turbo holds the quickest 1/4 mile of a FWD 3800-powered car at 10.195 @ 137.75.
John Tsimaras makes a flat 400 FWHP in his 98 GTP with INTENSE Stage 3 heads, INTENSE Stage 3 Blower camshaft and Magnuson/Eaton MP112 roots blower with nitrous and runs 11.130 @ 123.25 at 3,450 lbs race weight.
The amount this blower will flow will more than make up for the abysmal runner length. Just look at that intake manifold in the Ebay link I provided, maybe an inch and a half of runner length.
I am going to use the measurements off the 99 split-port lower intake I have to draw up a blower intake and see if someone I know here in SC can fab it up.
Driving the Caliber
Side project: The LT-5 Fiero is being born..
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777 |
Originally posted by Twisted6:
Surprised in all these years noone actually fabbed up an intake and fuel rails for an Eaton M90. The M90 found on the GM 3800 V6 would probably be the best (design-wise) with a rear inlet, rather than top inlet found on the M90 off the Ford 3.8 Thunderbird, solves hood clearance issues right there.
Not to mention the ported and modified housings and snouts and modular pulley systems the GM aftermarket provides.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33741&item=7940071590&rd=1
^ Best all angles pictures of a GM M90.
Ive got an M90 in my bedroom right now. Its off a thunderdird. Its not top entry. lets take a step back and look at this again.
Ford Thunderbird SC is an M90 that is intercooled. The blower is rotated 180 deg so that the compressed exit is on the top instead of the bottom. This allows the compressed air to be routed to a FMIC (or SMIC as the MSP boys call it) and then back to the intake manifold.
The Ponticrap blower you listed was an M62 not an M90 and it was rear entry like the TSC M90 I have except the throttle body is basically mounted directly to the rear of the blower casing. The TSB is rounted through a cast pipe from a different side location and this pipe includes a pressure relief valve as well. The thunderbird entry port also looks to be less restrictive than the M62 on the bonnie. I have yet to decide to do a lightning style IC or a TSC style on my project - time and money will decide in the end. I wish you good luck - but you need ot reevaluate the facts for a bit.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,099
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,099 |
I believe there are a couple of things you are forgetting about?
1. The motor mount on the drivers side.
2. How are you going to power the SC if the motor mount is in the way?
3. The motor mount.
Oh and did I forget? The motor mount?
--Matt <-- Some eaton experience.
2003 Sonic Blue SVT Cobra Coupe
2003 RedFire SVT Cobra Convertable
2005 Dark Toreador Red F150 XLT 4x4
2000 Black SVT Contour - Beater
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,099
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,099 |
Originally posted by Rara:
See, I typically discourage a lot of folks from thier silly harebrained schemes, because they have no idea what they are getting into.
hah...  You just say "Hey, why don't you twin turbo your cobra?"
2003 Sonic Blue SVT Cobra Coupe
2003 RedFire SVT Cobra Convertable
2005 Dark Toreador Red F150 XLT 4x4
2000 Black SVT Contour - Beater
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777 |
Originally posted by mmars:
I believe there are a couple of things you are forgetting about?
1. The motor mount on the drivers side.
2. How are you going to power the SC if the motor mount is in the way?
3. The motor mount.
Oh and did I forget? The motor mount?
--Matt <-- Some eaton experience.
It in a RWD car - not a FWD first off.
second - Im not sure if the RWD motormounts are the same setup. Thats why ive asked in the pics thread to find someone with a V6 LS or S-type. . .
dont motormount me this or that cause im not even sure that will be a problem anyway!
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by Twisted6:
Originally posted by Rara:
The real question is, is it worth it?
Depends on who does it, as pointed out, there are far less issues to overcome in the Mazda6 3.0 than the 3.0s your swapping in the Tours and the factory 2.5s.
I like a challenge, rather, I love a challenge. When someone says it cannot be done or is too hard, I love to find a way (Hell I am buying a $500 intake manifold just to see if it will fit [And a $400 CD ignition box with universal directions that were no help]).
An M90 can be bought off of a GM 3800 on Ebay for just a few hundred. Quite a few sites littered with all the particular dimensions you need off of an Eaton M90 to draw up an intake manifold and submit it to a machine shop. It could all be done up for far less than the ADC or Vortech kits, for me that is. Mount the injectors on the outside rather than in, fab up two fuel rails (Hell I've seen someone here do it with just a few pieces from Aeroquip). Shorten the engine mount (I plan on purchasing some flexible urethane and taking mine off to see how easy it would be to do so).
ZZPerformance will even take your M90 and swap in Gen IV MP112 (Found on the Lightning and 03 Cobra) rotors and snout all in the existing M90 casing for only $649 (Save you supply the donor MP112).
I have personally witnessed how well these breath on a GM 3800 and what kind of numbers they can post.
I'm 100% confident that I can mount one in the valley and drive it off the existing FEAD with a change in belt length.
I have ideas and sketches, but then I have sketches of so many things. I didn't do it because the turbo made more sense and was almost free power.
The blower system would cost a bit more on the fabrication side and I need professional machine shop work. BIG $$$
Cost would end up about what it took me to do the turbo, but I have all the benefits of cheaper replacement parts with my turbo and endless variations on packaging, turbo size, etc.
I want to see it done, but it won't be done on my money.
I do hope you do it though.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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