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another reason there shouldn't be camera's in war zones. if soldiers weren't so busy trying to look P.C. then this war might have been over last year.
the enemy fights dirty, fight dirty back. whats the point of holding prisoners? to release them when it's over so they can fight more? some of my family members are over there and i have heard some of the stories that aren't shown on the news. like a little kid strapped with explosives walkin up to a crowd of soldiers and blowing them up.
the media puts such a negative spin on this war, remove all the camera men and journalist or start showing the things the enemy does to us. then maybe people will take their heads out their a$$es and realize it's a war, kill or be killed
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Originally posted by cliffjohnson:
start showing the things the enemy does to us. then maybe people will take their heads out their a$$es and realize it's a war, kill or be killed
I agree. But, what sort of political malestrom would ensue if suddenly we, the American Public, were to see our sons and daughters, fathers, brothers, mothers, etc...being blown away or suffering the carnage of a war?
I am very pro troops - give them EVERYTHING they need to do their job; with out question. The tools to efficiently (quickly and as safely as can be in war) achive a goal and then GTFO and come home.
Semper Fi
"They've got us surrounded. Poor bastards." -Chesty
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Yes, that is true. This is a situation when taking prisoners is self-defeating. The concept of taking POWs is that when hostilities cease, the prisoners can return to society as the war is over and there is nothing to fight over. In this situation, the "insurgents" (really just a bunch of goddamn terrorists) are not fighting a recognized war. Let them go, and they will continue to wreak terror and havic.
Last week a group waved a white flag to surrender, then opened fire when troops approached to capture them. If I saw that, I would have a very hard time not just killing the bastards next time they try to "surrender."
former owner, 95 SE MTX
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Originally posted by cliffjohnson:
another reason there shouldn't be camera's in war zones. if soldiers weren't so busy trying to look P.C. then this war might have been over last year..
remove all the camera men and journalist or start showing the things the enemy does to us. then maybe people will take their heads out their a$$es and realize it's a war, kill or be killed
I think the soldiers there might disagree that they're not doing their job as efficiently as possible. As this incident suggests, "looking PC" isn't exactly at the top of their list.
I also disagree that ignorance is bliss when it comes to gaining the support of the people at home. Many people don't need to see war footage to know it's a $hitty situation for all involved. But others unfortunately aren't aware of the gruesome reality of war, and so they need to see footage.
So I agree it'd be great if journalists could get footage of terrorist acts of the type you describe. It would hammer home the fact that sending troops to war is not an easy decision, and it would also give the insurgents and their supporters less to crow about.
E0 #36
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Originally posted by cliffjohnson:
the enemy fights dirty, fight dirty back. whats the point of holding prisoners? to release them when it's over so they can fight more? some of my family members are over there and i have heard some of the stories that aren't shown on the news. like a little kid strapped with explosives walkin up to a crowd of soldiers and blowing them up.
I understand that you're concerned for the well being of your family members and we all hope they return safely.
But the vast majority of "insurgents" are Iraqi's who believe they are in a life and death struggle for the future of their religion, their way of life, their country and their families - and the tactics they use are the sign of desperation against a vastly superior force that is, in their minds, determined to destroy all that they believe in.
Regardless ... that doesn't relieve members of the U.S. forces from the moral and legal obligation to conduct themselves according to international rules of war, not to mention their own training and their own rules of conduct.
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Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
Originally posted by cliffjohnson:
the enemy fights dirty, fight dirty back. whats the point of holding prisoners? to release them when it's over so they can fight more? some of my family members are over there and i have heard some of the stories that aren't shown on the news. like a little kid strapped with explosives walkin up to a crowd of soldiers and blowing them up.
I understand that you're concerned for the well being of your family members and we all hope they return safely.
But the vast majority of "insurgents" are Iraqi's who believe they are in a life and death struggle for the future of their religion, their way of life, their country and their families - and the tactics they use are the sign of desperation against a vastly superior force that is, in their minds, determined to destroy all that they believe in.
What is the source of this perspective? Or, is it just opinion. I'm asking a genuine question here with no intent other than understanding you POV and it rational.
Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
Regardless ... that doesn't relieve members of the U.S. forces from the moral and legal obligation to conduct themselves according to international rules of war, not to mention their own training and their own rules of conduct.
It's hard to win a contest of any sort (war included) if the opposing sides play by different rules. In the case of Iraq, the insurgents and/or terroists are certainly not adhearing to the Geneva Convention; or any other sense of fair, just and honorable combat.
In this instance, I'll agree with Malcom X, "By any means neccessary." I'll also re-cite a military saying - "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out!"
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
"They've got us surrounded. Poor bastards." -Chesty
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Originally posted by Trapps:
What is the source of this perspective? Or, is it just opinion. I'm asking a genuine question here with no intent other than understanding you POV and it rational.
I have no personal knowledge of Iraqi insurgents, but my opinion is based on a number of personal conversations with the Islamic author Irshad Manji, as well as the works of too many other authors to name, but most notably, and most recently,Michael Scheuer.
Originally posted by Trapps:
In this instance, I'll agree with Malcom X, "By any means neccessary." I'll also re-cite a military saying - "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out!"Semper Fi
I understand the frustration ... when live's are being lost to an enemy that doesn't seem to "follow the rules" it's natural to feel that the rules shouldn't apply to anyone.
Frankly, right now I could argue both sides - but in my gut, I don't think throwing the rules out could possibly be a good thing.
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Trapps ... one of my favourite sci-fi writers is Orson Scott Card (Ender's Game is a must read IMO) but he is also a fairly prolific political columnist. He recently wrote an article about putting the Fallujah shooting in context - interested to know what you think about it. Card's column here
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Really good article Mystikin, most of which i agree, Card is a really good writer.
-Matt
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I like tha article, Mysti-ken. It's a largely fair and rational perspective he presents. I'm not sure I agree with everything, but it's worth second read. I'll reply after some thought and that second read. Thanks for the link.
Mark
Semper Fi
"They've got us surrounded. Poor bastards." -Chesty
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