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Originally posted by SVT PETE:
A perfect example is baseball where many players have been hit by batteries being thrown by fans. That's assault and IMHO the player has a right to defend himself.
actually, that would be a battery, no pun intended. 
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by Trapps:
In my opinion, had the Artest/Wallace incident not occured there would have been nothing thrown.
Your statement really baffles me. So if a fight breaks out in any sport - hockey, football, baseball, basketball, the fans are entitled to throw things?
The law states that if a person feels he is being attacked/threatened he has a right to defend himself. That was one of my main points. If I'm walking down the street and a stranger throws a cup of beer at me, trust me, he's going to the hospital.
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thoughs.. O'neil, Artest and B. Wallace should be suspended - big time They should be fined - big time Fans should be prosecuted - harshly They let the players leave town. I think although it's a unique situation, they should taken many people into custody - Including players They did not report taking anyone into custody - BS One guy on SC said 10 game suspensions - see above about Spreewell precedent This whole thing sucks.... 
Semper Fi
"They've got us surrounded. Poor bastards." -Chesty
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Semper Fi
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by Trapps:
Did you fall down and bump your head today? Gee, some dirtball was drunk driving and killed an innnocent person. Lets lump all drivers into the same batch... 
You can lump all drunk drivers together.
Originally posted by Trapps:
How is bringing the whole city down due justice?
Because the community that these idiots belong to no longer deserves any respect or prestige. Only if Detroit loses its reputation as fans will there be proper punishment for those involved. I wouldn't be saying this if there were one, two, or even a half dozen fans that participated. But it seems many of the lower sections of the arena were involved. Either that or the 'few people' involved just happened to have hundreds of cups full of beer and pop available for them to throw at the players. It seemed like a free-for-all. Therefore, you have to blame the 'fans' in general.
It was one fan that hit Artest. It's inexcusable for fans to throw debris at the field and at players, but it has happened before: batteries, golf balls, coin nights are always a bad idea. What sets tonight apart is players retaliated (defended, whatever you want to call it), and the entire situation escalated into the "free for all". If that situation transpired (fans throwing stuff, players rushing in to go after the fans) in ANY other city, I'd put money down on the same result. It is unfortunately human nature for masses to get involved when situations get riotous and individuals feel they won't get caught.
Generalize by skin colour and it's racism, by gender it's sexism, but generalize when bashing Detroit and it's journalism.
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Originally posted by SVT PETE:
The law states that if a person feels he is being attacked/threatened he has a right to defend himself. That was one of my main points. If I'm walking down the street and a stranger throws a cup of beer at me, trust me, he's going to the hospital.
Artest didn't go after the guy who threw beer at him. Jackson wasn't even remotely involved and he ran up and threw the first punch at another bystander.
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Originally posted by ESC:
Originally posted by SVT PETE:
The law states that if a person feels he is being attacked/threatened he has a right to defend himself. That was one of my main points. If I'm walking down the street and a stranger throws a cup of beer at me, trust me, he's going to the hospital.
Artest didn't go after the guy who threw beer at him. Jackson wasn't even remotely involved and he ran up and threw the first punch at another bystander.
I'm not condoning what the rest of the players did, but in Artest's case he did what most people would have done - his reaction is human reaction. He went after the guy he thought threw it. It's not his fault he's not playing with a full deck.
Originally posted by ESC:
It was one fan that hit Artest. It's inexcusable for fans to throw debris at the field and at players, but it has happened before: batteries, golf balls, coin nights are always a bad idea. What sets tonight apart is players retaliated (defended, whatever you want to call it), and the entire situation escalated into the "free for all". If that situation transpired (fans throwing stuff, players rushing in to go after the fans) in ANY other city, I'd put money down on the same result. It is unfortunately human nature for masses to get involved when situations get riotous and individuals feel they won't get caught.
Well said.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by Trapps:
Did you fall down and bump your head today? Gee, some dirtball was drunk driving and killed an innnocent person. Lets lump all drivers into the same batch...
You can lump all drunk drivers together.
OK - drunk/stupid fans. Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by Trapps:
How is bringing the whole city down due justice?
Because the community that these idiots belong to no longer deserves any respect or prestige. Only if Detroit loses its reputation as fans will there be proper punishment for those involved. I wouldn't be saying this if there were one, two, or even a half dozen fans that participated. But it seems many of the lower sections of the arena were involved. Either that or the 'few people' involved just happened to have hundreds of cups full of beer and pop available for them to throw at the players. It seemed like a free-for-all. Therefore, you have to blame the 'fans' in general.
Not saying lots werent involved, but like-wise most were not.
Originally posted by SVT PETE:
Originally posted by Trapps:
In my opinion, had the Artest/Wallace incident not occured there would have been nothing thrown.
Your statement really baffles me. So if a fight breaks out in any sport - hockey, football, baseball, basketball, the fans are entitled to throw things?
No. Give me some credit for not being an idiot. A poor typist, yes, moron, no. However, the Artest/Wallace incident elevated the emotion in the fans like they themselves were opperating in high emmotion.
Originally posted by SVT PETE:
The law states that if a person feels he is being attacked/threatened he has a right to defend himself. That was one of my main points. If I'm walking down the street and a stranger throws a cup of beer at me, trust me, he's going to the hospital.
Ishyn Ru or Shotokan? I agree. But, you will have to hit me first. Hit me without provocation and be prepared for consequences.
I'm going to take more zydone and sleep now. I can't wait for Saturday Morning Reading. Right here in the CEG.
Nite yall.
*editied for formating - multiple quotes were confusing me.
Last edited by Trapps; 11/20/04 08:33 AM.
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One thing that has to be considered (that still does not excuse what the fans did), the fans may not have realized someone hit Artest with the beverage. It was just that first isolated incident that triggered everything. But they did see the players jumping into the stands.
In any case, whether it be bias or if they're just looking to sensationalize, the media coverage tweaked a lot of details from what the tapes show to emphasize their points.
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Originally posted by ESC:
In any case, whether it be bias or if they're just looking to sensationalize, the media coverage tweaked a lot of details from what the tapes show to emphasize their points.
Oh?? How?? Unless George Lucas was involved, I think what happened is pretty damn clear. I'm usually the first to criticize the media, and often ESPN, but their coverage was right on the money tonight.
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