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Ehh...I say no to the idea of a non-natural born US Citizen Prez. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't support an amendment to allow it nor would I support a candidate if an amendment were to go through.
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Quote:
And that someone must be born a U.S. citizen isn't logical? Refer to JaTo's post for a reason why it is logical.
I understand JaTo's concern. However I do not see how the "natural-born" requisite protects it.
A person can be born outside the US to US-born parents, never live a day in the country until he's 40, then move and live in the US for 14 years and be eligible to run as President. I can be a 4th generation Frenchmen who's great-grandparents were US citizens, as long as one of my grandparents and one of my parents both spent at least 1 years in the US, and can still run for President. I can be born in the US, live here for one day, and then move to France for 40 years and then move back and be eligible for President.
Do you think the above people are actually less likely to be swayed by Foreign 'special interest' than someone who moved here when they were 2 days old? How does the 'natural-born' requirement protect against Foreign "special interest"? There's loopholes in it big enough to drive a Mack truck through.
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Why pick and choose which qualifications are discriminatory? Why is it okay to discriminate on the basis of age, but not nature of citizenship? To say the magical number of 35 makes you fit to be CoC is about as ridiculous as saying the magical age of 21 makes you responsible enough to drink.
I agree that the numerical value of the age is debateable, however there is a value to age itself. The Supreme Court has ruled that age can be used as a discriminatory basis when it can be argued that it has a bearing on the ability to perform the job function. It has ruled that Country of Origin cannot be used on a discriminatory basis. If you can pose an argument for "natural-born" remaining a requirement that isn't full of huge loopholes I would be inclined to agree with you.
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CEG\'er
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This is perhaps one debate that could very well be meaningless in the abstract, because, today it takes a long time, a lot of money and a lot of partison support to be any where close to being considered a party's candidate for President - it's a very small group of people who qualify.
The point is, this isn't really a discussion about equality or fairness, it really is all about Arnold - it's not like there's a tremendous number of citizens born outside the U.S. who otherwise qualify to be presidential candidates.
So from the most practical POV, IMO I don't see how you can can expend the time and effort to amend the constitution to benefit one man and (arguably) one party.
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Originally posted by Antonio:
Originally posted by Renee:
I am sorry, but you know what, nobody NOT British will be a British Prime Minister, nobody not Canadian will become Canadian Prime Minister, there won't be a non-French person as the French Prime Minister, and I highly doubt there will be an non-native born American President. People don't want a someone not born in that country to run that country.
Your ignorance disgusts me.
What ignorance Antonio? You KNOW it's true. There are very few people in this country who actually think a non-native American should be allowed to be President. VERY FEW in the grand scheme of the US.
Besides, it's MY personal opinion. You may not like it, but that's not my problem. The question was asked, and I answered the way I feel. It's not ignorance, it's opinion. So YOUR ignorance of the original question disgusts me. 
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Renee:
Originally posted by Antonio:
Originally posted by Renee:
I am sorry, but you know what, nobody NOT British will be a British Prime Minister, nobody not Canadian will become Canadian Prime Minister, there won't be a non-French person as the French Prime Minister, and I highly doubt there will be an non-native born American President. People don't want a someone not born in that country to run that country.
Your ignorance disgusts me.
What ignorance Antonio? You KNOW it's true. There are very few people in this country who actually think a non-native American should be allowed to be President. VERY FEW in the grand scheme of the US.
Besides, it's MY personal opinion. You may not like it, but that's not my problem. The question was asked, and I answered the way I feel. It's not ignorance, it's opinion. So YOUR ignorance of the original question disgusts me.
If your personal opinion is that no one not born in the U.S. should become president, you might simply want to state it that way; rather than making blanket statements about what the people of the U.K., France, Canada and the "majority" of people in the U.S. want.
Those statements fall outside the realm of "opinion" - and they only become fact if you have some sort of research evidence to back it up.
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Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
If your personal opinion is that no one not born in the U.S. should become president, you might simply want to state it that way; rather than making blanket statements about what the people of the U.K., France, Canada and the "majority" of people in the U.S. want.
Those statements fall outside the realm of "opinion" - and they only become fact if you have some sort of research evidence to back it up.
How about you go find me information on ANY of those countries electing Prime Ministers that were not born there. If you find FACTUAL information, I will conceed that it HAS happened. I highly DOUBT you will find it though.
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The law should not be changed. Not for Arnold or anybody else. With the huge influx of illegals we're experiencing, this could easily lead to a massive problem in our electoral system.
Arnold is a good guy, I think he'd be a great president, but don't go altering the Constitution as a matter of convenience - that's just asking for trouble.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Quote:
How about you go find me information on ANY of those countries electing Prime Ministers that were not born there. If you find FACTUAL information, I will conceed that it HAS happened. I highly DOUBT you will find it though.
I suggest you re-read his post again.
The fact that there never has been a non-natural-born citizen leader of those particular countries (although there has been of numerous other countries) is not at dispute here.
The problem is that you assume that because there hasn't been (if there indeed hasn't) that the reason why is that people of those countries don't want it. There could be many reasons why they haven't elected one -- perhaps it's not legal as it is here (I don't know), or perhaps a non-citzens hasn't attempted to become leader.
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Renee:
Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
If your personal opinion is that no one not born in the U.S. should become president, you might simply want to state it that way; rather than making blanket statements about what the people of the U.K., France, Canada and the "majority" of people in the U.S. want.
Those statements fall outside the realm of "opinion" - and they only become fact if you have some sort of research evidence to back it up.
How about you go find me information on ANY of those countries electing Prime Ministers that were not born there. If you find FACTUAL information, I will conceed that it HAS happened. I highly DOUBT you will find it though.
Easy - the first three Prime Ministers of Canada were born in Scotland and the 6th PM was born in England. No Canadian PM until the 10th was technically born in Canada, as Canada as a soveriegn nation did not exist before 1867.
Furthermore, there is no requirement in our system of government for a Canadian Prime Minister to be born in Canada; and given the multi-cultural society that we have, I seriously doubt anyone would care where our Prime Minister was born, so long as they were the right person for the job.
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Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
Originally posted by Renee:
Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
If your personal opinion is that no one not born in the U.S. should become president, you might simply want to state it that way; rather than making blanket statements about what the people of the U.K., France, Canada and the "majority" of people in the U.S. want.
Those statements fall outside the realm of "opinion" - and they only become fact if you have some sort of research evidence to back it up.
How about you go find me information on ANY of those countries electing Prime Ministers that were not born there. If you find FACTUAL information, I will conceed that it HAS happened. I highly DOUBT you will find it though.
Easy - the first three Prime Ministers of Canada were born in Scotland and the 6th PM was born in England. No Canadian PM until the 10th was technically born in Canada, as Canada as a soveriegn nation did not exist before 1867.
Furthermore, there is no requirement in our system of government for a Canadian Prime Minister to be born in Canada; and given the multi-cultural society that we have, I seriously doubt anyone would care where our Prime Minister was born, so long as they were the right person for the job.
Ahhh see?? Someone can do research. I bow to you Ken.
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