Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Duratec Performance Torque?

no "module" can ever replace then knowledge/knowhow/"instinct" of an experienced tuner. besides they can tune MUCH more then just the a/f ratio. you need a good dyno tune to get the most out of your mods, how else are you supposed to know if what you are doing is an improvement.

also, i sold the tour...

You slay me with your responses... :rolleyes: It's like a moving comedy show...

On the spot A/F tuning beats a one time "chip" tuning anyday.
Use the chip for spark advance, and other factors...

oops - added a mod. Another $1000 for custom tuning. oops - added a mod. Another $1000 for custom tuning. oops - added a mod. Another $1000 for custom tuning. oops - added a mod. Another $1000 for custom tuning. :p

So do you still have your headers? Just curious what your looking to get for them... Email me with the details? Doubt I have the money but I'm curious anyways

If the headers and your tuner are that good, offer a money-back guarantee on the sale.
That sort of offer leaves no room for argument and its put up or shut-up.

warmonger

Besides, someone needs to do a proper before and after of just the shm headers with nothing else a factor. I won't buy anybody saying that headers work better with a good tune. Not unless there is intake work done as well. Its just like that stupid MSDS claim that they headers add 25hp when it is really the headers, custom chip and filter.
Why not dyno each part individualy and then all together to prove they work better together or not.

Bret, I've been doing this stuff since before any cars had electronic controls on them[that equels back in the early 70's] I can see that this fella has sold you a line of ****! Keep on making house payments for him,I'm sure he LOVES to see you come in.
By the way you didnt answer my questions regarding the dimensions of the headers. Could you please post them? Thanks.

"no one said you had to buy them."

Bret, ahh now I see. You are still trying to sell the headers. I have been simply arguing that there is ZERO proof that long tube headers add substantial tourque to a Contour. Perhaps they DO, unfortunately, your tuner's professed skill & your bet does adds not a shread of proof. But your offer to put money on it IS interesting. Perhaps you could guarentee the buyer the 20/20 minimum gain OR you would pay for the headers/install/dyno tune? Might move thoes suckers a bit faster eehh.

Dan you are incorrect about no proof, it has been proved and documented many years ago that long tube EQUEL lenght headers DO boost tourqe. The problem with all the coments being made nowadays[ie they dont seem to work on this car or they really dont help]is the fact that they were built with NO regard to correct and proper design! Did you know that making a set of headers with the primary tubes as small as 1/8 of an inch to large can cause as much as a 50 ft. lbs. drop in torque as compaired to a set with the proper dimension? Thats why I asked for the dimensions on the headers, so I can do the math. I bet you there not even close!

RedSVT, reread my comment - I am talking about the Contour application that we have available from SHM. Agree (based on my modest car knowlege) with the general statement "properly designed, equal length, long tube headers boost torque". But again, I gave 3 dyno examples, 2 cases of modest or no tourque gain with SHM headers, the 3rd gained tourque only after a custom burn chip. But could he have gained with the custom burn chip WITHOUT the headers??? This is the control experiment.

Am I wrong for being a bit skeptical about big torque claims for SHM headers?? I am a scientist and I like data. I enjoy speculation and hypothesising but must ultimately deal with proof. Sometimes the data goes against conventional wisdom. This means you eliminate variables and confirm results to find the truth (sounds a bit X-fileish doesnt it). This is what I believe the product manufacturers should be doing for us.

Dan, take a look at the quote from you in my post. I dont see SHM mentioned anywhere. Prehaps you were talking about another post, if so I apologise. I also agree with you that there has been little to no boost in torque from the use of those headers. My contention is they are NOT designed properly. Just because someone slaps a buch of tubes together and welds them to flanges so they will bolt on doesnt make them performance enhancing product! Since you are a scientist you understand what I'm talking about. Bye the way there is a header system out there for Duratech contours that is phenominal!! But thats as much as I'm going to say for now. HeHe

Equal length long tube headers on OUR DURATEC engine. (Specific enough )

Be kind of hard to match the pipe lengths don't you think???

Same problem akin to an H (especially) or X balance pipe...

No proof they raise torque.

Matter of fact I have an issue of Super Ford in which they (among Many other mods) are added to an 98 SVT and produced 185HP/158TQ at the wheels. 21HP/14TQ gain over baseline, but that included the following to get there:

Sho Y, Custom Exhaust, chip, EH'd upper (again), secondaries opened 4mm!, EH'd heads (intake & exhaust!), KKM, clutch, SHOShop flywheel, quaife...

All for only 21HP/14TQ... KKM, Y, & exhaust alone are good for ~13HP/10TQ... What happened to that GOBS of torque???

I'm willing to bet that SHM, MSDS or the Mystery mod make close enough power gains respectively you couldn't tell them apart on a dyno!!! Outside of maybe forced induction (turbo would have custom manifolds anyway - so that leaves S/C)

Can anyone prove me wrong???