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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
The "brainwashed" comment is, IMO, an excuse for not killing the enemy by portraying them as naive innocents. Well that naive innocent is pointing a very large gun at people defending my freedom; brainwashed or not I'm picking the life of our soldiers against anyone else.
Out of a country of 25 million, how many do you think are actually carrying a gun ... 100,000? 500,000? a million, maybe 2 million (that's roughly the size of the Chinese army I think)
Still leaves 23 million non-combatants who cannot leave; have no choice but to be there and probably weren't asked if they wanted to be in the line of fire.
I think they deserve to be considered in everybodies well wishes about the safety of those involved in the attack on Falujah.
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Is the inclusion of my quote of your statement meant to infer that I'm supporting the widespread slaughter of innocent civilians?
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
Is the inclusion of my quote of your statement meant to infer that I'm supporting the widespread slaughter of innocent civilians?
No - if you think it is, you are jumping to a conclusion. Here, in more detail, is what I am inferring.
1) You said that the families of dead Iraqi extremists do not deserve anyone's sympathy, and in fact, they deserve the same fate - meaning the families deserve death too.
2)You also characterize "naive innocents" as carrying guns (I assume you are not making a blanket statement, but meant that some carry guns) which further suggests you believe they deserve death, and so do their families.
My point is nothing more or less than what I wrote: that the vast majority of Iraqi's do not carry guns and by any definition, "brainwashed" or otherwise, are in fact completely innocent, and therefore the vast majority of Iraqi's deserve the same good wishes for safety, that have been extended to coalition soldiers.
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OP
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The reports I'm hearing say the offensive is moving a little quicker than expected. This means that either the terrorists have all left the city, or the terrorist numbers were exagerrated. I'm leaning towards the former, but I am far from an expert. Unfortunately, ten Americans and two Iraqi soldiers have been killed since the beginning of the battle. May they rest in peace. 
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Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
â??[Murdering Americans] is the individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it.â?--Usama Bin Laden
why do you have a quote from someone that is obviously an extremist psycho? wouldnt you think that his views, being an extremist psycho, would be false? that is unless you hold him in such high reguard, and respect as to think that he is a sane, intelligent, and level headed individual.
i am a muslim and i want to live in a peaceful, loving society where all religions are free to practice their beliefs. am i a bad muslim then?
Oo (xxx)oO
o xxxxxxxx o
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Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
Here, in more detail, is what I am inferring.
1) You said that the families of dead Iraqi extremists do not deserve anyone's sympathy, and in fact, they deserve the same fate - meaning the families deserve death too.
Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
If that family shares the same extremist belief of the US as their "soldier" ... then they can share the same fate IMO.
Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
2)You also characterize "naive innocents" as carrying guns (I assume you are not making a blanket statement, but meant that some carry guns) which further suggests you believe they deserve death, and so do their families.
Please look at the context of where the term naive innocent was used. zgendron said that it is possible for some of the insurgents to have been brainwashed, I concluded therefore that this was a way of absolving them of the actions they are taking to kill US soldiers; eg. they don't really want to be fighting they've just been tricked into doing so---a "naive innocent." Note that this is only those who have taken up arms against US soldiers and NOT every possible citizen of Iraq. Again, the naive innocent *is* the "brainwashed", gun-wielding insurgent fighting to kill US soldiers.
Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
My point is nothing more or less than what I wrote: that the vast majority of Iraqi's do not carry guns and by any definition, "brainwashed" or otherwise, are in fact completely innocent, and therefore the vast majority of Iraqi's deserve the same good wishes for safety, that have been extended to coalition soldiers.
I completely agree and have only said those seeking to kill US soldiers should be responded to in kind.
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Originally posted by Davo:
I'm against the war, but I hafta show my support, my prayers and thoughts with them all
#0009
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Originally posted by mikey boy:
Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
â??[Murdering Americans] is the individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it.â?--Usama Bin Laden
why do you have a quote from someone that is obviously an extremist psycho? wouldnt you think that his views, being an extremist psycho, would be false? that is unless you hold him in such high reguard, and respect as to think that he is a sane, intelligent, and level headed individual.
i am a muslim and i want to live in a peaceful, loving society where all religions are free to practice their beliefs. am i a bad muslim then?
I just thought that some people around here have forgotten the intentions of the primary target in the war on terror and needed a reminder. Call it a reaction to reading the 9/11 Report and listening to people whine and moan about the military action in Iraq.
I, too, despise the tainting of Islam this nutjob is projecting onto the world.
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Originally posted by Davo:
The reports I'm hearing say the offensive is moving a little quicker than expected. This means that either the terrorists have all left the city, or the terrorist numbers were exagerrated. I'm leaning towards the former, but I am far from an expert.
i thought i had read that they completely surround the city, 10,000 troops.
ps someone said that the "innocents" were unable to flee the city....
i would think they could have done this if they wanted to. people fled the country when we invade Iraq, and that was under saddam's rule. if the population is 10 to 1 then i would think it would be fairly simple for quite a few to leave. this Fallouja b.s. has been going on for quite some time now and any reasonable person could speculate that a battle for the town would take place sooner or later. after seeing what the "infidels" have done to the rest of their country, they should have high-tailed it outta there a long time ago! I love how I opened this morning's paper and see two Marines standing over a guy (20's?) in a jumpsuit in pain and the caption says two US Marines help an injured insurgent. can you imagine if the roles were reversed? if that was some poor US soldier lying on the ground there with a bullet in his leg? with Iraqi insurgents, and their sympathizers, standing over him? they'd be kicking him and old women would be hitting him in the head with sticks!   i hate it that these SOB's from these types of countries take advantage of our integrity (abu grhaib not included) and honoring of the Geneva Convention and they just do whatever the hell they want! fighters dressed as civilians, women and children with bombs, torturing/killing prisoners (real torture, not naked dog pile bs), and remember Gulf War episode I? driving with their tank turrets turned backwards (a universal sign of surrender) then flipping them around and firing on our boys at the last second?!
the sad truth is, no matter if they are "evil" insurgents, sympathizers, or plain "innocents", they are all too stupid to realize what we have done for them and will end up just f*cking themselves over in the long run anyway, no matter how this plays out. Look at the Balkans. They united to hate Russia while she had her boot on their backs. The USSR collapses, everyone is free to enjoy life, and they start killing each other like dogs.  I truly hope we do not intend to "democracize" the middle east because these people will never accept it and embrace it. Islam is a strict religion which does not embrace freedom but enforces strict order and obediance. I have no problem with that for people who want it. Their fellow muslim brothers from neigborhing countries should be trying to work with them to tolerate their differences of their varying Islamic sects, that's where their true problems lie.
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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CEG\'er
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And in terms of this statement ... Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
I just thought that some people around here have forgotten the intentions of the primary target in the war on terror and needed a reminder.
could you please remind us who you think the primary target is (was), and what you think his intentions are? And is this the same person as the "nutjob" you refer to?
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