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Originally posted by JaTo:
Care to take another crack at that news report, since reporters that ACTUALLY visited the site are saying that they materials disappeared before US troops arrived on-site?
The plot thickens.
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Joined: Jun 2000
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Quote:
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE OCT 26 2004 11:02:38 ET XXXXX
60 MINS PLANNED BUSH MISSING EXPLOSIVES STORY FOR ELECTION EVE
News of missing explosives in Iraq -- first reported in April 2003 -- was being resurrected for a 60 MINUTES election eve broadcast designed to knock the Bush administration into a crisis mode.
Jeff Fager, executive producer of the Sunday edition of 60 MINUTES, said in a statement that "our plan was to run the story on October 31, but it became clear that it wouldn't hold...
I guess "60 minutes" figures they have no reputation left to loose..
So, I wonder what they will put together now for Oct 31?
Now, Im listening to Kerry and his "presidential" deep voice on the radio saying that he was "outraged" that the weapons facility in question was "second tier, below the Iraq oil ministry"....
BECAUSE IT WAS EMPTY! What a tool...
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
Now, Im listening to Kerry and his "presidential" deep voice on the radio saying that he was "outraged" that the weapons facility in question was "second tier, below the Iraq oil ministry"....
Besides, I thought there was nothing worth going to war in Iraq for. Why is Kerry and the rest of the media so outraged over this? If they would have had their way, Saddam would still have those explosives that it was considered so blunderous to lose control of.
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Veteran CEG\'er
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Quote:
Besides, I thought there was nothing worth going to war in Iraq for. Why is Kerry and the rest of the media so outraged over this? If they would have had their way, Saddam would still have those explosives that it was considered so blunderous to lose control of.
Its only Tuesday, give him a few days, and his stance will change... Its only natural for him at this point.
E1
1999 Cougar - Supercharged 3L
1992 Talon TSi - AWD Turbo
1992 Eclipse GSX - AWD Turbo
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New CEG\'er
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OP
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Originally posted by Davo:
Dem vp hopeful John Edwards blasted Bush for not securing the explosives: "It is reckless and irresponsible to fail to protect and safeguard one of the largest weapons sites in the country. And by either ignoring these mistakes or being clueless about them, George Bush has failed. He has failed as our commander in chief; he has failed as president."
Why is this "story" being reported now?
Probably because the Iraqi government released the information JUST A FEW DAYS AGO.
2000 Contour LX
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Originally posted by JaTo:
Originally posted by Rex Barnes:
It doesn't? How can we acheive democracy, a stable economy, a functioning government, or any of Bush's other goals unless Iraq is physically secure? How can we acheive that without controlling the insurgents?
Where have I said we could do any of this without additional time, troops and effort? Please point it out.
"Additional time"? That's the age-old excuse for failure: "we just need more time." Tell us exactly how additional time is going to reverse this chaos.
I made an explicit argument earlier in this thread that the attacks have consistently increased. you agreed. Wake UP! Time is on the side of the insurgents, as it is in almost every guerilla war. Maybe you think the insurgents will get bored and go on vacation soon?
Originally posted by JaTo:
Originally posted by Rex Barnes:
Ordinary Iraqis are afraid to apply for jobs with the government (virtually the only decent jobs that exist), because they are afraid of being killed. Unemployment is rampant. The economy is dead, because foreign investors see there is no security (as you know, dozens of foreigners and hundreds of their Iraqi employees have been killed). The occupation is an epic failure by any practical measure, and even under Bush's own stated goals.
It's an unpleasant situation
"Unpleasant situation" is Rumsfeld's euphemism for "disasterous."
Originally posted by JaTo:
There exists NO crystal ball that any administration has ever had on the EXACT amount of resources and capital needed, troops required and time spent on excercises like this. Calling the game only 12 months into the process reeks of foolishness.
We have been there for NINETEEN months. To say we are only 12 months into the process is a poor attempt to falsify the facts.
It is ridiculous for you to say that we are not allowed to judge the progress of the occupation. If you want me to say it is a failure only THUS FAR, then OK. Maybe Bush will pull a rabbit out of a hat, and we will start making progress toward security and fair elections and economic stability. I might even believe that, if Bush had described to us just how he is going to do it. He hasn't. He just says we are going to stick it out and hang tough. Great, that's an excellent plan.
Originally posted by JaTo:
Originally posted by Rex Barnes:
Forget about practical measures and Bush's goals: What about our MORAL responsibility to the millions of innocent Iraqis who need a secure place to live and work? To them, the lawlessness and terrorist groups we are allowing must seem as bad as Baathist dictatorship!
Don't even PRETEND to discuss or even care about the moral responsibilities when you seem to think that going into Iraq in the first place FOR ANY REASON was a bad idea. Hussein and his regime killed MILLIONS during his tenure as dictator in Iraq, unless you have forgotten.
I didn't see liberals clamoring all over each other to decry the gassings in Kurdish controlled territory of the mass killings and torture that was the mainstay of Husseins regime under ANY administration...
Saddam's brutality was indeed a legitimate (but insufficient) justification for going to war. But you are confusing that with Bush's conduct of the occupation, which is a very separate issue. You are, again, dodging my irrefutable point (that we have a moral obligation to the Iraqis to conduct the occupation in a humane, efficient and reponsible way), and spinning off into a separate issue concerning justification for the invasion. It seems we are spending very little time actually debating issues; instead I seem to spend most of my time here pointing out that your responses do not really address the point under discussion. My points are clear enough, I think. Can't you please focus on them?
Originally posted by JaTo:
Even with the screwups that the Bush administration has honestly made, I would rather see them in charge than ANYONE who voted against additional supplies (the $87B aid package) for these same troops that are having a hard enough time over there without having political HACKS playing election-year games in order to make a stand on the '04 ticket...
You have been told many times in this forum that Kerry voted against that aid package because it was a poorly conceived irresponsible slop bucket for Halliburton & Co., and he had hopes of forcing a rewrite that would be far better for American taxpayers AND the troops. But go ahead and stick to your spin, even though no one believes it anymore.
2000 Contour LX
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Jared, please don't misquote me.
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Originally posted by Rex Barnes:
Originally posted by Davo:
Dem vp hopeful John Edwards blasted Bush for not securing the explosives: "It is reckless and irresponsible to fail to protect and safeguard one of the largest weapons sites in the country. And by either ignoring these mistakes or being clueless about them, George Bush has failed. He has failed as our commander in chief; he has failed as president."
Why is this "story" being reported now?
Probably because the Iraqi government released the information JUST A FEW DAYS AGO.
No, it was Mohamed ElBaradei from the IAEA, in conjunction with the UN, and the New York Times with CBS behind the scenes that "released" this info on Monday.
This is the SECOND attempt by CBS News to influence the election with propaganda.
Perhaps some in the UN are also attempting to do the same.
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JaTo for Congress 2006! 
former owner, 95 SE MTX
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From Drudge...
NBCNEWS Jim Miklaszewski quoted one official: "Recent disagreements between the administration and the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency makes this announcement appear highly political."
That would be the above-mentioned ElBaradei.
former owner, 95 SE MTX
02 Ford Explorer
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