Originally posted by Rex Barnes:

Are you actually trying to deny that Saddam had control over the territory of Iraq? If so, you are totally alone in that opinion.

The UN would dispute it, as we had a fair portion of his country locked down into a "no fly" zone. Northern Iraq, which has been predominantly Kurdish, was anything BUT under his control. Again, the CIA would disagree that he has it locked down as well.

Originally posted by Rex Barnes:
By all accounts, Saddam secured the borders of Iraq pretty much in the same way (and with the same level of security, or better) as most countries.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry here, this is so absurd.

Originally posted by Rex Barnes:
Please provide evidence to the contrary,



I'm grabbing sites and links and it hasn't taken too long at all.

It's called the Autonomous Region:

http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2002/issue4/jv6n4a5.html

http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations/sovereign/sover/emerg/2004/0620kurdsadvancing.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kurdistan-iraq.htm

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,920048,00.html

Hussein has had little control over these regions, even when he was gassing and bombing the Hell out of them.

To your question if the CIA ever had agents in Iraq:

http://www.ecn.org/golfo/eng/articles/doc33eng.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0609-02.htm

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/4/21/103502.shtml

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/tenet_02-05-04.html

the key piece in the last article is: "Tenet agreed with Kay's comments that the United States didn't have enough human spies in Iraq and acknowledged that the CIA did not penetrate Saddam's inner circle."

Did I NOT say this in so many words? There were CIA agents in Iraq, but not nearly enough, thanks to the HumInt cuts that that region had seen during the mid to late '90s...

Originally posted by Rex Barnes:
or just go ahead and admit you were incorrect when you said "IRAQ'S BORDERS ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO LOCK DOWN AND SECURE."



Bremer's statement on securing Iraq's borders when he was head of the CPA in Iraq:

http://www.cpa-iraq.org/pressreleases/20040315_Border_Remarks_31503.html


and a Brigadier General saying that doing this is impossible, as well as others:

http://www.iraq.net/printarticle2639.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3389251.stm

http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/irq/irq_53_1_eng.txt

Key thoughts from last article: "ut Kimmitt told a press conference the day after the bombings that full control over Iraq's borders was impossible.

"The problem of terrorism is not one that can just be stopped by putting a wall a mile high around a 1,700 kilometre border," he said."

and again here:

http://www.cpa-iraq.org/transcripts/20040313_Mar13_KimmittSenor.html

"And on your third question about a reasonable expectation of what can be accomplished in terms of border control, border sealing, I think a better term to use would be "border monitoring." We have the capacity and the capability to monitor the borders. As you said, at 3,600 kilometers, it would be impossible to control and seal the borders of Iraq."

I won't give my Jane's logon out, but there exist many more articles there that discuss both topics...

Originally posted by Rex Barnes:
And while you're at it, just go ahead and admit the point that naturally follows: Bush could have secured Iraq, and he failed to do so.

And don't respond that "PERFECT SECURITY IN IRAQ IS IMPOSSIBLE." That is beside the point, a.k.a. dodging the issue again. You know I am talking about REASONABLE security (the kind that allows government to work in virtually all sectors and regions, and prevents daily bombings and kidnappings, and encourages foreign investment (which is now almost entirely absent).



Reasonable security is what we are striving for, as this takes time and it IS going to take more troops.

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