|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,092
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,092 |
Speaking as the owner of a TT car (see sig), I'd much rather be single.
TT's are complicated. It looks like Medusa is living under the hood with all of the vacuum lines, solenoids, check valves, etc... TT's generate incredible amounts of heat, which is further compounded by the RX-7's poor cooling system. Trying to solve a boost problem with TT's will keep you awake at night too.
Single turbos of today can produce power with minimal lag and not run out of breath at high rpm. TT's were a band-aid fix before turbo technology caught up.
I nearly crossed the MS6 off my list when I saw that Autoweek article saying it would be a TT I4. Thankfully, it's not.
1999 Ford Contour SVT #900/2760 (SOLD)
2005 Mazda 6s
2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
1998 Ford Ranger 4x4
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223
"Absolut Rara."
|
"Absolut Rara."
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223 |
Originally posted by cthomp21: Speaking as the owner of a TT car (see sig), I'd much rather be single.
TT's are complicated. It looks like Medusa is living under the hood with all of the vacuum lines, solenoids, check valves, etc... TT's generate incredible amounts of heat, which is further compounded by the RX-7's poor cooling system. Trying to solve a boost problem with TT's will keep you awake at night too.
Single turbos of today can produce power with minimal lag and not run out of breath at high rpm. TT's were a band-aid fix before turbo technology caught up.
I nearly crossed the MS6 off my list when I saw that Autoweek article saying it would be a TT I4. Thankfully, it's not.
Don't generically judge a twin turbo system on complexity by perhaps the most complicated implementation of a twin turbo setup ever.
There are times when a single turbo is appropriate, and there are times when two (or even more) turbos are appropriate. Fwiw, I've never seen an I4 application where I would use a twin setup, but if done properly, such a setup could be just fine.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Mazda was going to use Twin-Turbos in order to give the turbos a nice range across all speeds, but found that using direct-injection solved the problem so it only needed to utilize a single-turbo.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223
"Absolut Rara."
|
"Absolut Rara."
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223 |
Originally posted by sigma: Mazda was going to use Twin-Turbos in order to give the turbos a nice range across all speeds, but found that using direct-injection solved the problem so it only needed to utilize a single-turbo.
Care to share your source for this wonderful piece of gross speculation?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Mild Speculation, yes. But hardly "gross".
Prior to the unveiling of the Mazda6 at the Paris Autoshow, all Mazda6 MPS concepts shown were said to be Twin-Turbo models. And the turbos were to be sequential for maximum gain across the whole power curve.
In the announcement at the Paris Auto Show, Mazda stated this in their Press Release,
Quote:
A single turbocharger covers all speeds:
The merits of the direct injection system noted above make effective boost possible from low through high speeds using a single-scroll turbocharger, which is light in weight and simple in construction.
...while also omitting the second turbo that they had previously had in their concepts.
It's not much of a leap to figure that the dropping of the second turbo and the addition of the direct-injection that wasn't there before are directly related to one another since their affects are very similar. The fact that Mazda made a special bullet point in the press release to state why they only used a single turbocharger (when all the previous concepts had been sequential twins) and that direct injection fulfilled the need for a sequential system, is further proof that the two are related.
So, yes, Mazda hasn't come right out and said "We dropped the twin-turbo in favor of direct injection" in that exact phrasing, but it's pretty clear through the press release.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223
"Absolut Rara."
|
"Absolut Rara."
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223 |
Originally posted by sigma: Mild Speculation, yes. But hardly "gross".
Prior to the unveiling of the Mazda6 at the Paris Autoshow, all Mazda6 MPS concepts shown were said to be Twin-Turbo models. And the turbos were to be sequential for maximum gain across the whole power curve.
Who said all previous concepts were twin turbo?
Anything said in press releases is nothing but hype, the engineers don't write that stuff, so it doesn't a difference here.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,092
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,092 |
Quote:
Don't generically judge a twin turbo system on complexity by perhaps the most complicated implementation of a twin turbo setup ever.
There are times when a single turbo is appropriate, and there are times when two (or even more) turbos are appropriate. Fwiw, I've never seen an I4 application where I would use a twin setup, but if done properly, such a setup could be just fine.
I agree that twins properly done would be fine. Despite its very big drawbacks in the reliability department, the twins in my RX-7 are very linear and come online very quickly.
But, what's the point, except for something that's track-only? Today's turbos can provide adequate flow with very little lag. Why add the complexity, weight, and heat of a multi-turbo setup unless you're after something with 350+WHP (which boarders on being streetable IMO).
1999 Ford Contour SVT #900/2760 (SOLD)
2005 Mazda 6s
2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
1998 Ford Ranger 4x4
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,092
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,092 |
Where were any of the MPS concepts said to have twin turbos?  (besides the incorrect article in Autoweek)
1999 Ford Contour SVT #900/2760 (SOLD)
2005 Mazda 6s
2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
1998 Ford Ranger 4x4
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,016
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,016 |
Ooooooo, look at ya'll talkin' all sexy and stuff.
2006 Mazdaspeed6
1997 Yamaha YZF1000R Thunderace
1996 Volvo 850-R
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 344
CEG\'er
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 344 |
Wow...lotsa low numbers running on those 4 bangers. Audi/VW 1.8T making 400 hp before internal mods. 500+ after interior motor work...gotta love german engineering
95 V6 5SPD.
Shaved bumpers,antenna,trunk lock and 1/4 extensions
MIDNIGHT RED.
|
|
|
|
|