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Yeah, I know the guy was being sarcastic, and I also think it was kind of a weak way to try to support the cause (almost up there with stealing lawn signs), but hey, I'm laughing at the fact that you can actually do that. Not only did the guy do that, but they made them the first three. Basically, I'm laughing at the irony. While it is hard to find solid research supporting either side of the cause, one thing is for certain - this is not something that we should write into our constitution. I've never felt attracted to another man so I have no clue as to what it's like to be/feel gay, but I have many friends who are homosexuals, including my best friend who came out in high school after dating a girl for three years (guy's black too - we always tease him for being the ultra-minority. hehe). These people are looked at by many conservatives as being perverts or sick, twisted people which couldn't be further from the truth. They're some of the nicest people you could know, and plus they're the best to have around when you need fashion tips.  I would never marry another man, nor have any sexual desires for one, but that's just how I am. Because I'm not gay, doesn't mean I should try to change the law to hurt them for their lifestyles. As far as my use of the word bigot earlier, while I still shouldn't have said it, it was spurred by recent experiences - I put a "No on 36" sticker on my car, and trust me, I hate putting stickers on my car. I did it to support my friends - not to seak attention or to try to piss of conservatives. Since I've had it on there I have 1) been called a fag while getting out of my car in a parking lot by a couple of friendly high school students. 2) Was flipped off by a car driving next to me and yelled out by some not-so-pleasant folks for "loving queers" and 3) this made me the most angry - I caught some kid during a smoke break at work trying to peel the sticker off my car. I told him a thing or two but didn't threaten him or anything along those lines. It's okay to disagree with someone, but you don't have to be an a-hole about it (yeah, I'll admit I've been guilty of that more than I'd care to admit) Before you try to dictate these people's lives, get to know some of them, become their friends and see that a lot of them are really good people. And maybe then you can realize why we should let them have a right as simple as marriage. And 99blacksesport, you keep using "liberal" like it's a bad thing. 
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
My fiffy cent: I don't think what we FEEL is right or wrong should be forced on others. I don't think gays should marry. Heck, I don't think ppl should be gay. But that's what i think, it's not for me to force onto others. Also, I believe in God and believe it's up to Him, ultimately, to decide what is right and wrong. No need to have it in written law, the day comes for each of us in which we must come before the Lord,,, let the judgement be then.
Following your logic through to the ultimate conclusion gives us a society in which there are no laws = anarchy. I
"feel" like murder is wrong, but why force that belief on someone else, right?
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
My fiffy cent: I don't think what we FEEL is right or wrong should be forced on others. I don't think gays should marry. Heck, I don't think ppl should be gay. But that's what i think, it's not for me to force onto others. Also, I believe in God and believe it's up to Him, ultimately, to decide what is right and wrong. No need to have it in written law, the day comes for each of us in which we must come before the Lord,,, let the judgement be then.
wow, kermit. I was rather suprised but I am in total agreement with you on this one. Except God did say that it is wrong and we shouldn't participate in it, but like you said we shouldn't beat them over the head with a marriage liscence, its up to God on judgement day which i firmly believe in. But you really hit the nail on the head with this one and I am with you all the way.
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Originally posted by Sandman333:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
My fiffy cent: I don't think what we FEEL is right or wrong should be forced on others. I don't think gays should marry. Heck, I don't think ppl should be gay. But that's what i think, it's not for me to force onto others. Also, I believe in God and believe it's up to Him, ultimately, to decide what is right and wrong. No need to have it in written law, the day comes for each of us in which we must come before the Lord,,, let the judgement be then.
Following your logic through to the ultimate conclusion gives us a society in which there are no laws = anarchy. I
"feel" like murder is wrong, but why force that belief on someone else, right?
That's a very illogical way to follow his logic. Comparing murder to gay marriage is a ridiculous argument. Why? Because when two gay people marry no one gets hurt, no one dies, and there is no threat to your own sexuality or marriage. Kremit, I respect your view on this issue and I really wish more people with your beliefs could think that way.
Sandman, is that the best argument you've got? 
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It's a double standard applied to far too many things. It's ok to look the other way on some immoral issues but no others.
The classic example is people getting fired up over gun deaths, and those same people being nonchalant about DUI fatalities. Which one causes far more deaths than the other? Is either more sensible than the other? Yet we are suing gun manufacturers. Why? Why then are we not suing alcohol/automobile manufacturers? It's an attempt to forward a political agenda. An attempt to force someone else's beliefs on those that don't share them. And then to sit there and pine on and on about how bad it is to do that? Liberals hold to both of those beliefs (anti-gun, lets not force our will on anyone else), and that the Gov't knows what is and is not good for you (and how to better spend your money).
Sorry, I can't agree. Not at all.
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Quote:
It's ok to look the other way on some immoral issues but no others.
Immoral to who? Christians? Sorry, but need I remind you seperation of church and state? And what may be immoral to you, may be perfectly acceptable to someone else.
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The classic example is people getting fired up over gun deaths, and those same people being nonchalant about DUI fatalities. Which one causes far more deaths than the other? Is either more sensible than the other? Yet we are suing gun manufacturers. Why? Why then are we not suing alcohol/automobile manufacturers? It's an attempt to forward a political agenda. An attempt to force someone else's beliefs on those that don't share them.
I still don't see what this issue has to do with gay marriage? Stop trying to compare completely unrelated topics. I too agree that suing gun manufacturers for a shooting death is ridicolous, yet alcohol companies are not sued for DUI related deaths. IN FACT, I even wrote a paper exposing the exact topic you brought up here for one of my classes. It comes down to personal responsibility, and I do not dispute for a second that suing gun manufacturers is total BS.
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Liberals hold to both of those beliefs (anti-gun, lets not force our will on anyone else)
You know what, I am a pretty liberal person in many aspects, however I'm also conservative on several issues as well. I too fully support the 2nd amendment, as does my political party (Libertarian). I believe people should have the right to own guns, as protected in the constitution and I believe that many gun laws are completely ridiculous. Being a full-out liberal is just as dumb as being a full-out conservative IMO. Don't be afraid to switch sides on the issues and go against what your political party tells you to think.
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and that the Gov't knows what is and is not good for you
That's exactly my point Sandman. It shouldn't be up to the government to decide what is and isn't best for people's personal lives. Changing the constitution to ban gay marriage is doing exactly what you seem to be so worried about. It should be up to gay people to decide if they want to marry their partner, not our government.
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Sorry, I can't agree. Not at all.
I don't care if you agree with whether or not you think gay marriage is right. If you think gay marriage is wrong, then don't marry someone of your same sex, but don't tell homosexuals that they can't marry each other because you find it immoral. Voting No on 36 won't even legalize gay marriage - it will simply leave the topic open for debate as opposed to flat out ruling it illegal. Listen to what Kremit said - he understands this.
You said this is "an attempt to force someone else's beliefs on those that don't share them." No, that's what you're trying to do. You want to force your belief of this being immoral to prevent people who don't share your view from making their own decisions.
Can you not see your flagrant hypocrisies because you are too blinded by conservative and liberal labels?
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Originally posted by Sandman333:
I "feel" like murder is wrong, but why force that belief on someone else, right?
Nice try, comparing murder to homosexuality. In murder, and other crimes against people, there is a victim. There is no victim if two adults want to have sex or get married.
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Whoever cited "separation of church and state" as the key to this issue, hit the nail on the head.
There are many historically excellent reasons why an argument based on religious belief should have bearing here, but they all date back to when state and church were indistinguishable. Today's standards are different.
The issue here is civil rights - pertaining to the civil union of two people and all the rights and responsibilities that go with it - including divorce. When it comes to civil rights, sexual orientation has the same protected status as gender, race and religion - at least it does in most modern western societies.
The time has come to separate "marriage" defined as a civil union from "marriage" defined as a religious sanctity - and the reason to do this is to further the advancement of civil rights.
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Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
Whoever cited "separation of church and state" as the key to this issue, hit the nail on the head.
There are many historically excellent reasons why an argument based on religious belief should have bearing here, but they all date back to when state and church were indistinguishable. Today's standards are different.
The issue here is civil rights - pertaining to the civil union of two people and all the rights and responsibilities that go with it - including divorce. When it comes to civil rights, sexual orientation has the same protected status as gender, race and religion - at least it does in most modern western societies.
The time has come to separate "marriage" defined as a civil union from "marriage" defined as a religious sanctity - and the reason to do this is to further the advancement of civil rights.
Word. 
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My reply was directed more at the Liberal notion of a know-whats-good-for-you government than anything else.
My opinoin of gay marraige? Don't call it marraige. Marraige is between a man and a woman. That's it. Call it a civil union, call it a cupcake, I don't care. Give them the tax "break" (yeah, right) and so forth. But don't ever defile marraige by calling it that.
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