Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Duratec Performance Twin Turbo?

Well ,I too apologize for taking up a page and a half arguing torque. Until I see a dyno plot of an SVT putting out the said claims of torque at said RPM's consider me set in my beliefs.

And Bret, I'll have a full bottle waiting for you IF you are wrong!

5000+ rpm clutch slips...

That's how...

Absolutely ZERO low end torque used...

BTW - the SVT makes it peak torque somewhere skyward of 5500rpm... Food for thought...

Low end torque indeed... :rolleyes:

4000-7500 is where this motor is at. It IS NOT a pushrod V8!!! Always remember that!

OMG, I can't believe this! some of you just aren't getting it!
tcobra is right on the money, honestly.
I understand what bret was getting at, but he was really, really having a hard time getting it across well.

remember, hp is ALWAYS a function of torque and engine speed. If you don't have tq, you won't have hp, unless you dramatically increase engine speeds. high engine speeds makes a car very very difficult to launch whether it is fwd or rwd, and is murder on clutches, and in the Contour's case, diffs.
Most anything you see at the track is going to have enough power to spin its tires, even cars w/ slicks (umm, burnout anyone??) so regardless of how much traction you have, more can always help. The key then is how do I make the best use of the traction I have? Well, you try to launch at the point right where the wheels start to slip a little but not spin. well, in a car w/ not so much tq, you need to launch at a high rpm to hit this point, and the speed differential is pretty high, so either the tires just spin, or the clutch slips, or everything hooks up and (clutch and tires) puts a huge shock load on the drivetrain and either breaks something or drags the motor down to a much lower speed. On a contour, the only real way to make it work is with the clutch slipping (SVT2000 has gotten this down pretty good, and that is why he is the only near-stock SVT into mid-high 14s)
well, how do we improve the situation? let's try to lower the launch rpm, so it gives us a chance to hook up better, but stock, the engine will just bog down and end up w/ a worse 60' time. hmm, what happens if we add torque? well, that lets us keep that slip/grip point on launch, but do it at a lower rpm, which makes it much, much easier to launch, because the speed differential of the engine to what the tires need to do isn't as great as with a higher launch rpm.

Ideally, a drag racer wants to keep his driven wheels right at that point of a little slip in acceleration all the way down the track. well, nobody can do that in a street driven car (at least none that I'm aware of) so you try to keep it at that point for as long as possible. More torque will make it easier to sit right on that point from earlier in the launch, and allow it to maintain that point farther down the track. Hp still helps, since it is simply tq in motion, but a fat torque curve will help far more than a single high peak in the hp curve. Its all about area under the curve. (this is another reason why turbos are so much better typically than a centrifugal turbo, just to stay on topic :D)

Posted by Rara
"Its all about area under the curve."
I get it, I just said that!

Broad torque curve = broad HP curve = good. No rocket science here. The "art" of launching a FWD car is less straightforward I think.

Rara,

I understand completely what you're saying, but frankly, I haven't seen proof that more torque for this car will result in better 60' times. Anybody that has a 3.0 have any 60' times? Brad, have you run your car yet?

It might make it EASIER to launch, EASIER on the tranny, shafts, diff, clutch, and etc., but will it produce 60' times that are noticeably quicker? I'm not so sure about that. I honestly doubt it could put a car running 14.4 into the 13s.

After all, that's pretty much what Bret was trying to get across, and that's what I was trying to argue.

If you have skill at launching the car, you can have the tires on the verge of wheelspin if you slip the clutch throughout much of 1st gear. (That's how I used to launch before getting the Quaife and clutch)

The need for torque will get greater with more traction. I think we all can agree on that.

Anywho, I'm done, stick a fork in me.
John