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imo one is a person who's sole goal is to commit murder and destruction on a macro scale and is a national security threat to our nation, the other isn't anywhere near the level of a national security threat. i'm not belittling the crimes of rapists or saying what their punishment should be i'm just stating that to me there is a pretty big difference between the two.
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Originally posted by BP:
imo one is a person who's sole goal is to commit murder and destruction on a macro scale and is a national security threat to our nation, the other isn't anywhere near the level of a national security threat. i'm not belittling the crimes of rapists or saying what their punishment should be i'm just stating that to me there is a pretty big difference between the two.
You're thinking far too narrowly.
Terrorism doesn't have to be on any more of a "macro scale" than a murder/rapist.
A "terrorist" can kill one person. Hell, a terrorist might not even succeed in that and still be tried as a terrorist.
A serial murderer can kill dozens of people -- much more "macro" than the vast majority of actual "terrorists" who may kill no or just a couple people in their suicide bombings. A murderer can can even, quote, "terrorize" communities. Just look at the DC Snipers -- they arguably impacted the lives of more people in that area than 9/11 did -- terrorism or murder?
What's the defining characteristic between someone who drives a carbomb into a building and kills 3 people and someone who walks into the building and shoots 3 people? If the only difference is intent, that's a mighty big loophole to get people in and out of. And even then it seems a bit odd that "intent to intimidate" is the only difference between a federal offense worthy of the death penalty and a state offense that's not.
Here's an example question: Did McVeigh commit "Terrorism" or "Murder" when he bombed the Murrah Federal Building?
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Well said sigma. The morning of the first sniper shootings, I drove by the first two crime scenes shortly after it happened. It was pretty scarey seeing so much of the area taped off and so many marked and unmarked vehicles.  After that, front row parking was at a premium and people in shopping centers scurried to and from stores. I wont lie, I was scared and I jogged to and from my car!
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Originally posted by sigma:
You're thinking far too narrowly.
and imo you're looking at it far too broadly. simple as this, one is a national security threat and one is not. do you think bush should declare a war on serial rapists as a national securtiy threat?
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the vp debate sucked, they were sitting so close i was waiting for cheney to take a swing. he stayed pretty composed, although i kept thinking he could have a heart attack any second.
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Quote:
and imo you're looking at it far too broadly.
Too broadly? I used your definition. Macro-Scale and national security threat.
Quote:
simple as this, one is a national security threat and one is not.
Define "national security threat".
What makes the Unabomber a murderer and not a terrorist?
What makes the DC Snipers murderers and not terrorists?
What makes McVeigh a murderer and not a terrorist?
All the above had express intentions of intimidating particular groups of people, entire societies, or the government. They are, by simple definition, terrorists. But not in our legal system. Should they be? When Kerry says "Terrorists should be executed" is he referring to the above offenders too? Or do they have to be Muslim and fighting a Jihad to count?
There needs to be some clarification here before we start executing people left and right based on the very vague definition of "Terrorism" and the further vague 'clarification' of "national security threat".
Quote:
do you think bush should declare a war on serial rapists as a national securtiy threat?
That's not the question. The question is whether one should be treated significantly differently by the courts than the other.
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Originally posted by sigma:
The question is whether one should be treated significantly differently by the courts than the other.
i figured this is what you were really trying to get to. personally i think both rapist/murderers and terrorist deserve to die for their crimes and in that sense they deserve something in common.
still, there is no organization of rapist/murderers with an idealistic thought process backed by extremist religion that the west is evil and should be destroyed. to me this is the context i think they were discussing terrorism in the debate as to hunting down and killing. not comparing rapist/murderers to terrorist and how the death penalty should be handled. i can't answer those questions for bush or kerry. is this (rapist/murderer/terrorist/death penalty) a major topic of debate for who should be the next president, not imo.
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Quote:
still, there is no organization of rapist/murderers with an idealistic thought process backed by extremist religion that the west is evil and should be destroyed. to me this is the context i think they were discussing terrorism in the debate as to hunting down and killing.
I agree that is the context that Kerry's comment was in regards to during the debate. However, Kerry's stance was "No Death Penalty except for Terrorists" long before the debates and something I've never understood.
Terrorists don't have to have an "idealistic thought process" be backed by "an extremist religion" or necessarily want to "destroy the west". Those are all characteristics of a particular terrorist group, not of all terrorists. Is Kerry Pro-Death Penalty in regards to al Qaeda only?
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Looks to me like Kerry only wants the death penalty for Muslims... anyone else seeing that?
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Originally posted by sigma:
Is Kerry Pro-Death Penalty in regards to al Qaeda only?
i don't know. maybe you should submit that question for the next debate. 
and lol @ kerry wants death penalty for muslims only.
that's about as bad as saying bush wants to go to war with only muslim countries, even though that is what he's done.
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Originally posted by BP:
Originally posted by sigma:
Is Kerry Pro-Death Penalty in regards to al Qaeda only?
i don't know. maybe you should submit that question for the next debate.
and lol @ kerry wants death penalty for muslims only.
that's about as bad as saying bush wants to go to war with only muslim countries, even though that is what he's done.
I forgot my tongue-in-cheek icon in my other pants.
Here's the point. Kerry's record speaks for itself. You want us to follow only his "current" record, right? Well, how about how many votes he's missed in the Senate thanks to his campaign?
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