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here's my take.... they both sucked. i really expected more out of the leader (and the potential leader) of the free world. i'm one of those "swing votes" that everyone seems to be talking about, and that debate helped me nil. it seemed to me like the same old rhetoric that we've been seeing for what seems like ever from those two. i'm sure bush's advisors told him to go after kerry's flip-floppityness, but it seemed like most of bush's 30 second rebuttals were "you can't lead the world if you send mixed messages".... personally, i would have liked to have seen bush get MORE emotional. when kerry was attacking him for going to war "so easily" and without the un, i would have liked to see bush stop, pause... look right into the camera and say "you know what, making this decision to go to war was the hardest thing i've ever had to do in my life. it kept me up at night, it still does. you have no concept of just how difficult it is for a president to go to war, to put people in harms way. but when it comes down to it, i will protect the american people to the best of my abilities. i am willing and able to make the hard decisions. it's obvious you are not." but, he didn't. he touched on that a little when the question of if it was worth the lives of the soldiers who died, but i would have liked to have seen him get more into it. and kerry.... was obviously more well spoken than bush, thats no suprise. i was sad to see him go into the same repeat the same b.s. mode towards the end there as well. it seems like he was well spoken but made no points. sigh.... i wish perot were running again. 
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone? 
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Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
i wish perot were running again.
agreed. 
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by mamisano:
Wow, some people are just so closed minded. Why even watch the debate when you watch it with blinders on?
GWB has a SMALL coalition including England, Poland, Australia and a few other small nations. The US still accounts for over 90% of the troops and funding of the war. The UN gave GWB the chance for help, but GWB would not allow them to take over the mission. He felt that we started it without the UN, so they should not take over.
Are you forgetting the roles that Germany and France played in things at the UN during the first months of the war? At the time, there was no way in Hell we should have kotowed to their demands to be included in reconstruction. Today? Things have simmered down and this approach is being made, as it is becoming a necessity.
Originally posted by mamisano:
Now, Kerry wants to ask the UN for help. Whats wrong in that? They should have some say in how the War is run if they contribute troops and aid.
Bush is doing that and has done that, though not with the stipulations and "politics" that France and Germany keep trying to play. Rewarding self-serving "turncoats" (under their own terms) that signed UN 1441 and renigged on it isn't the way we do business; I don't think any country does business this way.
Originally posted by mamisano:
The US can NOT do it alone. If Bush can't swallow his pride and ask for help when it is needed, then we need someone who will. Why should we and our children shoulder the burden of the war???
I agree we can't continue to shoulder the bulk of the burden alone, though I would ask people to look at just about every post Cold War military action by the US under the wing of NATO or the UN and take a look at troop levels and financial load that is placed on countries.
The US ALWAYS has shouldered the bulk of the price tag and number of troops.
Originally posted by mamisano:
What was Bush's reply to Bin Laden? Why have we pulled most of our troops out of Afghanistan and "outsourced" the work to Afghan "Army"? We had the guy cornered in the mountains, and now we can't find him? Bush concentrated too much on Iraq and its WMD (still can't find them) instead of finding the MASTERMIND of 911. WHY?????
Cornered? Saying that we had him cornered is like saying we've got an ant "cornered" in the Mojave desert. The White Mountains that borders Pakistan and Afghanistan are riddled with caves; some that run for miles. I believe we have come close to him, but I doubt we ever had Bin Laden "cornered"
While Bin Laden is of IMMENSE importance to us, Iraq became the bigger issue when the insurgency stepped up there.
JaTo
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Originally posted by svt4stv:
Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
i wish perot were running again.
agreed.
Remember, the rules outlawed charts and graphs...without those, he woulda been lame too.
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Originally posted by 18psi2300:
Originally posted by svt4stv:
Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
i wish perot were running again.
agreed.
Remember, the rules outlawed charts and graphs...without those, he woulda been lame too.
no, no he wouldn't have. i've had the pleasure of watching him speak at the detroit economic club about ten years ago. he was phenominal. and there were no charts or graphs.
not to mention, i wasn't making that statement simply because i like his public speaking abilities. he got and would still get my vote for many, many other reasons!!
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone?
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Kerry beat Bush bad, the first half hour Bush was really hot looked like Bush would walk away with it. The next hour Kerry really beat him badly.
Examples:
It looked as if Bush only had about 30 minutes worth of material, after the first half hour he kept recycling it.
Bush kept asking for 30-second responses, and then he would have nothing to say.
Last example, way to many pauses for Bush. This guy can't think of the top of his head, it HAS to be written down. The best politician of all time that can do that is both Clinton and Regean.
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Originally posted by SVTRUSH:
Last example, way to many pauses for Bush. This guy can't think of the top of his head, it HAS to be written down. The best politician of all time that can do that is both Clinton and Regean.
Reagan lost his first debate with Mondale.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
Originally posted by SVTRUSH:
Last example, way to many pauses for Bush. This guy can't think of the top of his head, it HAS to be written down. The best politician of all time that can do that is both Clinton and Regean.
Reagan lost his first debate with Mondale.
My goof 
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FWIW I'd call the debate a draw. Both candidates stuck to their message. Bush could have defended Kerry's attacks more strongly, and Kerry could have addressed the "flip-flop" issue much better.
As far as style/presentation goes, Bush was basically as good as he gets (mediocre), while Kerry as usual failed to connect with the audience (by talking to Lehrer instead of into the camera).
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Originally posted by SVTRUSH:
Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
Originally posted by SVTRUSH:
Last example, way to many pauses for Bush. This guy can't think of the top of his head, it HAS to be written down. The best politician of all time that can do that is both Clinton and Regean.
Reagan lost his first debate with Mondale.
My goof
But then he won 49 states in the election.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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