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Originally posted by Trapps:
I'm of the minset that you're either for America or against her.
There's gotta be a middle ground on this issue. Dare I extrapolate and say "If you don't vote for Bush, you're anti-american" or am I taking this the wrong way? 
Bush has shown to be authoratative and decisive...we'll just have to see what Kerry does if/when he gets into that position. I'm going to leave it at that.
Derek
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BFS it is... Originally posted by BP:
Originally posted by Stazi:
But all too many Americans can do is complain...
very true, but it's the american way.
Ryan
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I don't think decisive is in Kerry's vocabulary.. Originally posted by Derk2000:
[decisive...we'll just have to see what Kerry does if/when he gets into that position. I'm going to leave it at that.
Ryan
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
I don't think decisive is in Kerry's vocabulary..
We liberals try to step on as few toes as possible before making any decision. 
Derek
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Originally posted by BP:
what have we been doing to nurture their hate towards western society? what can we do to change that? why do they think we're a cancer? i don't know how the answers to all the questions. don't patronize yourself by insinuating diplomacy = pacification.
It's not our job to stop and figure out why someone wants to kill us. It is, however, our job to kill those who want to kill us. Maybe before we returned Hitler's declaration of war we should have stopped and thought about why he would want to declare war on us. And we should have stopped and thought about what we did wrong that would make the Japanese want to decimate our Navy. We could have let some scholars somewhere do an empirical study on these things. I'm sure they could have had those studies done by the time the Germans got to the Great Plains and the Japanese got to the Rockies.
Originally posted by BP:
maybe i am an idealist, crazy, and unrealistic (probably so according to the ceg masses) but i don't believe a whole religion of people want to be terrorists and i don't believe we can kill all the terrorists. maybe there is no answer to the questions and we're just meant to kill each other off.
A whole religion does not want to be terrorists (I'm assuming this, and I have to assume because I haven't heard much denunciation from the rest of this religion).
I don't think you're an idealist, crazy, or unrealistic. But I do think you're hallucinating and dillusional. You're digging yourself deeper and deeper holes in this thread, and it's probably best that you stop now.
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Originally posted by BP:
what have we been doing to nurture their hate towards western society? what can we do to change that? why do they think we're a cancer? i don't know how the answers to all the questions. don't patronize yourself by insinuating diplomacy = pacification.
maybe i am an idealist, crazy, and unrealistic (probably so according to the ceg masses) but i don't believe a whole religion of people want to be terrorists and i don't believe we can kill all the terrorists. maybe there is no answer to the questions and we're just meant to kill each other off.
I was going to ask YOU why you think they killed nearly 3000 people 3 years ago. We had been out of Iraq for years, no major conflicts for us. Tried to stop bloodshed in Bosnia, Sommolia (which put us in conflict with militant Islam. We supported Israel.....maybe thats the rub.
But to hear them, beyond Israel..they appear to hate our culture. We are too free..women not wearing Burkas (hell they are threating to murder French hostages over Burkas in France), women's rights, decadant music, near pornographic films, gay rights, free love, seductive clothing, crack cocaine. We live lifestyes of excess most cannot imagine. We can worship at whatever church we choose, and we can become educated and have jobs. We export these things worldwide...they see our movies, TV, and music videos (how IRONIC that the liberal celebrities pedal soft core porn worldwide have no realizatrion that they typify the "average American" to radical Islam. That's who we are to them...and I think they fear it infiltrating their culture. Which is why they strictly isolate themselves from contact with our culture.
I believe it IS THEM OR US so to speak. Fundamentalist Islam will never coexist well...the younger generation will always be curious of western culture and often find it attractive...adopt some western ways and take them back to polute the fundamentalsist. They MUST be seclusive, but with internet, satellite TV, etc it is much harder to cut us off and keep our ideas and culture out. And our FREEDOM is a powerful drug...I think rightly so, they have concluded they MUST destroy us before we inadvertantly contaminate and destroy them. Thus....the Bush doctrine rational in a nutshell. A DELIBERATE attempt to accelerate the contamination with establishment of free and democratic states within the heart of militant Islam. Like a virus that will degrade fundamentalist Islam from within. Cold and calculating..perhaps but make no mistake...there is no middle ground with our diametrically opposed cultures. Think about it....how long could a young fundamentalist muslim withstand our culture before his views started to change, a little or a lot. Without a middle ground, negotiation is typically futile. Sad but true. No, they do NOT want to kill but there existance is threatened by us as we are by them...
Option B is to withdraw internally, do not export our customs, films, TV, music, clothes, cars, books, and citazens. Block all communication to the ever expanding fundamental Islam states. Keep a low profile, let them finish Israel, hold back as they expand into the Sudan, Niger, Phillapines, Balkin States, etc. Retreat and pray.
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I should have put more thought into the original post. My apologies to all concerned. It certainly has been an interesting day in this thread. Deep down inside, I do feel like we are in a fight for our lives. So to clarify, here are a few points; these are my opinions, some of which are supported by facts from other sources:
If you don�t like this thread, you are free to not read or reply.
If you don�t like what has been posted you are free to reply.
Given my temperament this morning, I may well have implied that a vote for Kerry is a vote for an improvement in the terrorist�s capabilities; in as much as I believe Bush will challenge them harder, faster and farther than Kerry would.
I am in no way implying that Kerry is a terrorist or would support them.
Itââ?¬â?¢d be great if all the worldââ?¬â?¢s problems could be solved by a ââ?¬Ë?fist fight out backââ?¬â?¢ between two guys (1 terrorist 1 non terrorist), ala Rocky 4. Better 2 guys than thousands or millions. This is, obviously, impossibility.
I do realize the difference between supporting troops and supporting the war; and that some people may support one and not the other. Further to this point (my political alignment no secret), in the case of Iraq and the current situation, I still struggle with the FACTS (http://media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/080304v1.wmv) from Kerry himself.
The civilians who choose to work in the Middle East are doing so at their own risk and largely for economic reasons. A risk they are made fully aware of by their employers who seek to insulate themselves from liability by the very contracts signed when executing an assignment.
Foreign nations who do not support the war on terrorism do so at their own peril. Spain, France ââ?¬â?? are you listening?
Iraqi, Islamic or otherwise, if you wear a hood, hide your identity, claim Jihad and behead a civilian in the name of religion, then you suck. What are you afraid of? Why hide?
I�m not well versed in the Quoran (sp?), but I�m pretty sure Allah didn't tell Muhammad to say murder, without prejudice, all who have different beliefs than you do. I know the problems in the Middle East aren�t that simple; there�s a couple thousand years of territorial and religious dispute in play throughout the region.
I like to think I have an open mind. In today�s world, that�s becoming increasingly difficult. Particularly on subjects which I have a great deal of passion towards.
At the very least, I�ll listen to a rationally presented argument or opposing viewpoint.
At the very worst, I�ll take something the wrong way or personally and retort in a less than appropriate manner.
* Edit - As to the original topic, Originally posted by BP:
and the question "Who would Al Q'aeda vote for?" is hilariously stupid. no point can be made with that question other than being dumb enough to try and answer it.
obviously a lot can be discussed, asked and even answered. I'll not go so far as to call you a dummy or a hypocrite, but you did have a fair bit to say in this thread which you initially condemned
Last edited by Trapps; 09/22/04 01:54 AM.
Semper Fi
"They've got us surrounded. Poor bastards." -Chesty
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Originally posted by daenku32:
Originally posted by JVT:
Daenku,
you are, by far, the biggest dip$hit moron to ever walk the face of the earth.
I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
-J
Same to you.
I don't expect you brownshirts to accept any criticism regarding your God Bush anyways.
Criticism?
Saying that Bush is an idiot is not criticism. That's hatred, which I'm sure you're full of along with [censored]. Construcive criticism, or critcism that makes sense or is actually true, is one thing I've never heard come out of your mouth.
Al Qaeda is still recruiting, wanna join? You're a perfect candidate.
-J
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Quote:
all of you acting like you know how terrorists would change their plans and/or react to who was in office have not a clue what goes on in the mind of an osama bin laden or other terrorists around the world.
I admit I cannot understand their thinking. Radical Islam is like an evil cult made up of serial killers. I can hate them without understanding them.
This country, even after 911, is not yet even close to being truly committed to wiping out radical Islam. A horrendous terrorist attack with WMA would ensure that commitment.
Terrorists hate us with an unrestrained passion and fury that I cannot understand. Another attack on this country will generate a different kind of hatred. A hatred that I can understand, an industrialized and brutally systematic hatred such as the world has seldom seen - perhaps not since the times of the Romans. I think that we have not had another attack because the organized terrorists fear further stirring us up.
The fact that the 911 attack on US soil resulted in the overthrow of two Islamic regimes is a very direct message.
Given that, I think terrorist would prefer to see anyone rather than Bush in office.
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Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
...there is no middle ground with our diametrically opposed cultures.
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
I believe it IS THEM OR US so to speak...the Bush doctrine rational in a nutshell.
and this is what it's all about. fighting a war against a culture. with pat robertson calling islam a religion that we can't coexist with and the 'our god is better than your god' rhetoric coming from the admin this situation is truly getting out of control.
is this a war that can be limited to extremist islam, where is the cutoff for being considered extremist. does your gov have to be a democracy in order to be in the clear? the message has not been handled well. how about we ask how much of the muslim vote bush is targeting?
are muslims who vote for kerry terrorists? <-that's how stupid this thread is.
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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