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I pose a few questions for anyone with current or past military service.
Do you feel that some of our problems in planning and handling the "post-war" situation could be a direct result of our military having the institutional mindset of being liberators, and not occupiers?
Do you feel that you were suitably trained for duty as an occupier in a hostile environment?
Do you believe that the Pentagon is comfortable with this occupational role?
I am just trying to get some insight. Thanks.
former owner, 95 SE MTX
02 Ford Explorer
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Good read in the latest Rolling Stone mag by a private security force leader.
Our military is not trained to be a police force, too young, too indecisive. Reservists are undertrained and too numeours.
Money doesn't always bring happiness. People with ten million dollars are no happier than people with nine million dollars ~ Hobart Brown
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Originally posted by DrGonzo:
I pose a few questions for anyone with current or past military service.
Do you feel that some of our problems in planning and handling the "post-war" situation could be a direct result of our military having the institutional mindset of being liberators, and not occupiers?
Do you feel that you were suitably trained for duty as an occupier in a hostile environment?
Do you believe that the Pentagon is comfortable with this occupational role?
I am just trying to get some insight. Thanks.
The U.S. does not want to occupy Iraq. The problem is with the insurgents. I think the U.S. would already be getting ready to leave Iraq if the Insurgents would let them stabilize things. As much as I hate to say it, I think the U.S. did not like Saddam thumbing his nose at the U.S. agreement that he had agreed to keep back when he invaded Kuwait.
I found this information about terrorism and I think it is true;
The enemy is Islamism, a terroristic version of Islam. Islamism is the totalitarian root of the problem; terrorism is only a symptom, an instrument of war used by Islamists to achieve their objectives. Once these facts are understood, it becomes clear that the struggle is ultimately one of ideas and armies, not of law enforcement or religion.
Here is a post from another website from a person who I believe has been listening to too much insurgent propaganda. I don't agree with this person. I support our government and our troops. I think our government is a good government.;
Quote:
According to figures from iraqbodycount.net a minimum of 11,793 Iraqi civilians (including many women and children) have now been killed as a result of US and UK military intervention in Iraq since March 2003. 7,350 of these deaths came about during the major combat phase.
I write this because of the general upsurge in feeling towards terrorism. I site what the United States and the United Kingdom have done to the Iraqi people as being as bad, if not worse than terrorism. As some people say terrorism is ââ?¬Ë?evilââ?¬â?¢, I then also say, the governments of the US and UK are equally evil and more so!
The US with the UK in agreement has stealthily colonised and gained control of parts of the Middle East with the intention of gaining oil supplies. Do you think that the Arab and Muslim peoples of this land are just going to bow down and let this happen? This is their land, why should they be dictated to and oppressed by distant foreign powers? Do you think Arabs and Muslims are going to like the US supporting Israel�s extermination of Palestine and the Palestinians? There lie the major reasons for terrorism from the Middle East and in my view they are just reasons. They are at least as just as reasons for the start of any war around the world. In my view there has never been terrorism here, it is being used as another name for WAR. I don�t condone either terrorism or war, but in this case I find it hard to distinguish between the two.
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Con_touring, I agree that it was not our intention to be occupiers.
Historically, we have expected that the liberated would be grateful and help us and themselves, or at least would not be hostile. I do not think we were preparred for the apathy of the Iraqi general public. Is their dislike for the US is too derp for them to seize this opprotunity?
I would like to see a story exploring just how many of these insurgents are former Iraqi military or foreigners, and how many civilians they recruit. I think that the former Iraqi soilders have found religion, or least enough of it to join with the Islamofacists.
former owner, 95 SE MTX
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Originally posted by Con_touring:
I think the U.S. did not like Saddam thumbing his nose at the U.S. agreement that he had agreed to keep back when he invaded Kuwait.
Keep in mind that it was not a "U.S. Agreement." The world told Saddam to 1) Get out and stay out of Kuwait, and 2) Stop bombing your own citizens in the northern mountains.
Also, part of the agreement was that he shouldn't shoot at the policemen who were enforcing these sanctions, yet he did so just about every single day for 10 years.
Also, it was an imperative part of the agreement that he not develop chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons (aka WMD), yet he made no attempt to confirm that he had no programs, was hostile to the people who could confirm his compliance with the resolution, and behaved as if he had something to hide. Every time I think about this, I'm reminded of a line from Dr. Strangelove. "Why didn't you tell the world?"
Anyway, main point here is that we did not act unilaterally in imposing or enforcing sanctions, nor in administering punishment and regime change (after many warnings that we would do just that), and that, given multiple opportunities to comply (or prove compliance), Saddam failed to do so.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by DrGonzo:
I pose a few questions for anyone with current or past military service.
Do you feel that some of our problems in planning and handling the "post-war" situation could be a direct result of our military having the institutional mindset of being liberators, and not occupiers?
Do you feel that you were suitably trained for duty as an occupier in a hostile environment?
Do you believe that the Pentagon is comfortable with this occupational role?
I am just trying to get some insight. Thanks.
my job is not to question why my job is just to do and die... then again i was infantry
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well i sure should know more than i do. thats one thing i wish i did before i joined the military............was to educate myself with its history and be up to date with the military and politics and all. as far as askin if we were trained enough to occupy...........NO! i know i can say that much. i am active NG over here in Iraq and the training that was spoke of before we deployed was never seen. but again, you we gotta do what we gotta do. i just go with the flow and im lucky that it has not been to rough on me here and i have not seen much. not like those unfortunate soldiers that get stationed in Fallujah, Tikrit, and the other hostile areas.
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Originally posted by DrGonzo:
I pose a few questions for anyone with current or past military service.
Do you feel that some of our problems in planning and handling the "post-war" situation could be a direct result of our military having the institutional mindset of being liberators, and not occupiers?
Do you feel that you were suitably trained for duty as an occupier in a hostile environment?
Do you believe that the Pentagon is comfortable with this occupational role?
I am just trying to get some insight. Thanks.
I blame the vast majority of our problems in Iraq on Don Rumsfeld. His notion of a lighter, smaller, faster, more lethal, more technological military is a farce. He stuck stubbornly to it despite reports of its failings. He was told that it would take 500,000 troops to occupy Iraq, and that was a very good estimate. Instead, we have only a small fraction of that. We stay holed up in our compounds at night giving free roaming ability to the enemy, which he uses to great advantage. We allowed Iraq to transition from dictatorship to war time to free society in the blink of an eye. This was much, much too fast. In our haste to set up a democratic state, we forgot that these people have known nothing but war and terror for decades. There should have been a significant transition period of marshall law. We should have had the troop strength in place to close off all the borders (hello, hostile nations of Syria and Iran right next door). We should have initiated a national identification card system and required it for travel anywhere in the country.
Did you know that there are munitions stockpiles, containing thousands of pounds of explosives, which are left totally ungarded, lying about all over Iraq? We simply do not have the EOD experts available to get rid of them. We should at least be guarding them, but again, it is a question of numbers.
We are treating the insurgency there with such kid gloves that we are actually encouraging the terrorists.
On an individual soldier level, we were indeed prepared to fight the war and win the peace. We simply didn't have the numbers necessarry to accomplish that mission. Even so, the soldiers there are doing the best they can, just like they always do.
95 Contour SE ATX V6- SOLD
2001.5 VW Passat GLX V6 Tiptronic
2004 Honda VTX 1800N1
There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
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