Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Duratec Performance Turbo info?

Hey Stazi,
Not a bad paper! Was it graded? Only reason I ask is because there were some silly grammatical errors and the like, that I would have gotten reamed for at my college, even though they had little do do with the intent of the paper.

One thing I did notice you missed though, was that you failed to mention that turbos spin the wrong way south of the equator . . .

Chris and Stazi,

I don't want to necessarily talk him out of doing his own turbo, but to do it right, and intelligently, instead of throwing a bunch of parts at the car. Of course this hinges on the fact of whether he can intelligently figure out what he needs to do, and how to do it.

For example, though there are a couple of turbo kits for the 5.0L Mustang available, I still plan on developing my own, simply for the exercise of doing it, and understanding what is going on with it when I am done. (btw, stazi I will prolly be plying you with beer to assist me when I actually begin installing parts etc. :D) Though my example is not completely relevent because of my education in M.E.

great thesis, and i had no problems understanding it (other than the power and torque ratings)
quite informative, i was, however aware of most of the major points made (boost pressure and air fuel ratio) whatever, cool anyways

one thing though, the thesis is for a deisel and i dont think that really aplies to this situatuation


to do with my proposed turbo project.

i need to find out the flow ratings of the proposed turbocharger and figure out how much fuel will be needed per CFM at each rpms, the fuel computer will be a ***** to tune, but i will be having expert help (no not just ford techs, but a few freinds who succefsully turbocharged N/A applications)

i was hoping that being under the car would help cool off the turbo a bit (air cooling) i actually wanted the turbo not right at the exhaust manifolds, which is ussually the best way to get the most pressure, but where the exhaust pipes "Y" the plumbing would be no problem, there is ALWAYS a way to make stuff fit,
to do with water cooling, Anastazi. i thought you and chris were having problems tuning it correctly? anyhow me and my compatriots have plans for a water cooling design where a fine liquid spray is sprayed through a nozzle right after the intake charge leaves the turbo thereby cooling it down, tuning could be doen at a later date, im not sure what i could do to maintain a constant water supply and not running out, that is what dettered me, i didnt want to start testing intercoolers until i figured out how hot the intake charge would be

im sure another oil pump or two could be added for cooling(?) and lubrication of the ball bearing turbo

again, have i missed anything, again, rara i have not done exact calculations into what the intake and exhaust temps will be, i was, theoretically wait until the tuning stage to see what i would need in terms of extra cooling and thermal support.

again, im not stupid, im not just throwing sh!t into my engine bay i am feeling a bit patronized because im 19, have money, and have not gone to school for years to learn the things guys like anastazi have, but just because i have not gone to tech school dosent mean im a layman, ask me a question, if i cant answer it i garauntee one of my freinds can, they have gone to school. there is no way i would attempt something like this without having support by someone who knows their **** (cause ill admit i dont know it all)
and again i dont want to say i know more than anyone else, but whatever i am appreciating most of the advice being thrown my way.

Of course, then there's some old issues of MM&FF showing a do it yourself twin turbo set up on an '86 5.0 using two IHI turbos from 2.3s... Basic tuning got them low 11 seconds out of an otherwise stock car with cheater radials and frame connectors. They couldn't run at the track again to fully tune it until they came back with a roll cage... Cost them $1100 doing most of the work themselves, only sourcing out the exhaust piping and buying parts from the salvage yard. Their deductive reasoning at the time? "Well, a 2.3 is roughly half of the 5.0, so..." Sometimes guessing works, sometimes it don't. Go for it Kris!!!

Kris,

nobody is trying to patronize you, its just that Stazi and myself are both mechanical engineers (though Stazi has more turbo experience than I do) and Chris has a lot of experience in general car modification though I forget what his education lies in.(though he really is as dumb as a rock :D)

I highly suggest you pick up this book and read it very very thouroughly before going any further, it will give you a good baseline for turbo systems, and help you understand what you are getting into, and how to find out what you will need and what you can expect.
Maximum Boost by Corky Bell

Yes, that is a VERY good book, I have it, and although it brushes over a lot of different topics, it DOES give you a lot of pointers that will help you in building a turbo system for your car.

Rara, I would love to help you turbo your Cobra, we'll have to sit down and talk about it one day.

No real education, like sit-down-and-wite-some-paper-eduaction. My education came from playing with stuff, asking lots of questions, and having plenty of friends that trusted me with their cars. My turbo knowledge comes from Grand National/T-types and Syclone/Typhoon. I have always been in love with a V6, automatic, turbocharged car. I hope to have that same thing soon with my lowly GL!

Kris, I would never wish failure on anyone modifying a car, especially a Contour. I can tell you, the easiest part will be mounting the turbo and getting the pipes fitted. Your conventional T3 or T4 will encounter oil problems in the location you are wanting to mount it. Check out this article for some neat info on putting a turbocharger on a 2.5L Ford V6: http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=115

Very good info on a successful install.

Matt, that is so funny, reading that book made me start dying to put a turbo on something, anything

Stazi,
Though I haven't run through the calcs etc. I am pretty sure I know what I am going to do with the Cobra, I will prolly need your help mostly w/ the practical aspects of getting it on the car. SilverSnake has most graciously offered to assist when the time comes as well. Unfortunately, it will be awhile before I can get started (gotta buy a house first :D) hopefully, next winter the car will be put away only to awaken w/ a good 500hp in the springtime

rara or chris or stazi,
feasiblility question about the location of the turbo,
i was meeting with my freinds (the ones helping me with turbo) and my main tech suggested that the optimal placemtent of the turbo (obviously) would be nearest the intake, he suggested right where the battery and intake used to be, so that would mean routing the exhaust piping up through the engine and then back down, which could probably get pretty hot, would a custom exhaust manifold help at all with routing the exhast up through the engine bay? also what could i do to protect against heat..?
for a water cooled system, do you have the bugs worked out? and would that be a useful aplication here?

TIA

well i went and took out the battery, the PDB and the rack that held the battery, and HOLY SH!TE there be some serious room there, i pretty much decided that that would be optimum placement, now i need to take off the front brace to alter the exhaust manifold to go instead of under the car to have piping going to the turbo which will be in the hole tot hte right of the engine, its gonna be kinda tight, but whatever i also think that the linkAFC would make a good piggyback unit for my fuel system, as well, what kind of fuel pump can i upsize to, where can i get it, as well where can i get some 24LB injectors?

Howdy all.
This is my first post to ya'lls forum and I figured It wouldnt be a bad idea to jump in on something that I know. IVe been running a turbo Volvo 740 for the past few years and have managed a 14.2@96.2mph on an old 8v OHC 2.3-4cylinder turbo. The few things that jump out with me are these:
1: Placement of the Turbo. The feed to the turbo would need to be somwhere off of the Y-pipe of the exhaust. Granted You could feed it off of the front bank, but you will run into exhaust flow problems due to a few reasons:1. a SERIOUS flow restriction that will vary with Trubo speed and wastegate setting and size, on one side of your bank of cylinders, and also the flow on that single bank will not be a vary consistent means to pump the exhaust turbine of the Turbo itself. 2: The previous problem will lead to this.. yeas you can put it in the area where the battery is located, but your equal length exhaust feeds to this locatin would be unreal, or if you feed it off of the y-pipe you are adding MAJOR exhaust flow restrictions, which are optimal in getting peak performance out of a turbo.
Ok 2nd thing that jumps up: Turbo sizing. Hmmmm if you goto one of my old Volvo Sites www.badbricks.com and goto the How to size a turbo link. Its kinda crude but it will give you the basics for figuring out what size turbo you need for your car. To get your Engines ER , goto Ray Hall's turbocharging site, he has a few good calculators based on fuel load , etc, that will allow you to get a good read on your engines ER rating for the flow of the turbo. The problem i see with the flow sizing of this turbo is how do you want to run it, street or strip? and f its strip,then finding a turbo that would be usable in the uper powerranges will cause UNDUE lag in the lower end of the RPM ranges. If its street the exhast opposite problem is there.. you will die off on the turbo as it reaches the upper ranges of its flow limits and then you will notice a drop in pressure of flow to the engine(ie undersizing a turbo). (jsut a side not, i honestly thing a roots/eaton style whipple charger would be the best for our C-Tours..but.. thats an impossiblity, financially and otherwise).
Ok 3rdly. Hmmmmm How do you purpose to handle the fueling requirements of the Turbo?I wont even go into the complex problems involved with that.
And 4th. How do you plan to intercool this charged air to keep detonation down in a car that has a VERY high compression ratio? Alky injection would seem to be the easiest..and if not alky then, intercoolers would be required and then managing to install while maintaining suitable intake ducting as to not impose further intake restriction would be high near impossible. Okies. Sorry on that note I think I'll shush up.

so good luck and Once again.. Hi! Its good to be a part of the list!(I hope my signature is a good one.... I dont even remember what it is..LOL... oh yeah and I can't spell or type for dookie)