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Joined: Apr 2001
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Originally posted by Big Jim:
Excessive camber, either negative or positive, make the tire want to conform to the shape of a conical section.
Toe is the primary tire wear angle. Unfortunitely too many alignment techs have taken the attitude that all they need to do to set an alignment is "set the toe and let it go". In so doing they all to often miss additional significant problems.
One of the most critical factors to this discussion is that alignment is not a static thing. Alignment is dynamic. The attempt to setting alignment is to somewhat guess at what will end up being appropriate when the car is in motion, not sitting on an alignment rack. Toe changes with road force and drivetrain power. Caster and camber changes as the vehicle bounces up and down and as it corners. Alignment also changes some just from the additional weight load in the car and how it is distributed. One of the most critical lessons taught in a basic alignemnt class is that if you are aligning a car that has a very heavy driver, it is best to have the driver in the car while making adjustments so you can compensate weight induced pull or wear.
That's why I keep harping on good toe control too. If your [censored]'s worn out, camber will increase the wear rate, but the camber isn't as much the cause as the toe is.
Of course, we can't forget camber control too. If the control arm bushings are allowing lateral movement under side loading, they'll make a tough camber setting worse on the inside tire in a turn (the one that's also being dragged across the pavement by crappy ackerman, poor toe setting, or poor toe control), and it'll cause positive camber gain on the outside tire, causeing OUTside edge tire wear. I understand that. I also understand that camber curves on strut-suspension cars are less than optimal, especially when they're lowered, but that's another reason for MORE negative camber; negative camber is gained at a decreasing rate as the suspension compresses past a certain pont.
My main point in all of this is to temper the usual fear-mongering over running desirable levels of negative camber. People just blurt out that that kills tires. It does not, unless there's an underlying issue causing the wear in the first place, in which case yes, the wear will be significant.
Put another way, you can mitigate a poor tire-wear situation by running conservative camber settings, but that's treating the symptom, not the illness, and it's not the camber that's causing significant wear.
So to be safe, stick to less camber. If you want to run more camber, you can, but you have to make sure your componentry and other settings are good.
Everybody happy?
Pacific Green '96 Contour LX V6
??98 GTP, light mods, 14.66/94
Calypso Green '92 Mustang LX coupe, 13.56/101
Crown Autocross Club 1999 Street Tire Champion, 2000/2001/2002 Street Modified Champion
KCR SCCA 2002 Solo II Street Modified Champion
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Well were getting some were. Out of curiousity, what size tires are you running, on the vehicle with the -1.5-, -2.5 camber? Some what happy. But were starting to lean off the path. Good toe control is something we have no control over. Setting your toe and checking your componets for wear, are just maintence. OEM's spend hours on some very expensive and complex equipment, plotting toe/camber/caster curves for front and rear of the vehicle. Its pretty cool stuff and very complex. Camber control is the same way. Camber is and always will be a major tire wear angle and will effect tires. But there is alot of variances depending on strut/spring tuning, weight transfer and balance, tire size and compound. Problay one of the most asked questions in this forum is, "I just lowered my car and my inner tires are wearing out", hence camber. Toe is still playing effect as most people may not notice the feathering that excessive toe gives your tire. I have to say that I am surpised with some vehicles and how much camber they can run without wear. But on street tires, the Contour is not one of them. Quote:
Put another way, you can mitigate a poor tire-wear situation by running conservative camber settings, but that's treating the symptom, not the illness, and it's not the camber that's causing significant wear
So this quote is not accurate. Depending on situation. Summary, get your car aligned every time change any suspension part, inluding tires. I can't stress that enough. On average people will get tire every 30,000 miles or so depending on the setup. Please just spend the extra $100, get your car aligned and make your tires last longer. You will thank yourself later.
'99 Silver svt
For sale
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Check classifieds
bp.powell@comcast.net
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I would like to chime in because I would love to get to the bottom of why some of us are chewing up the inside edges of the tires so quickly. As MFE indicated above, the alignment setting on our mustang can be far more aggressive without the tire wear problems on these fwd contours.
I've been rotating, remounting tires and getting alignments for 4 yrs now just to maximize the life of my tires. I have tried various toe settingsâ?¦ the latest being a 1/16â? total toe in. Itâ??s been about 6K miles with this particular setup and I did develop the saw toothed inner edge again on fresh BFG KDW tires.
So now I finally bit the bullet (as Big Jim recommended) and purchased the c/c kit to change the camber. My factory setting is about -1.1 degrees, which I donâ??t consider excessive. I hate like hell to change it, but Iâ??m likely to go for something between -.5 to -.25 degrees camber now. New LCA and struts will also go on at the same time. However, I donâ??t believe my car suffers from worn out suspension components either, since it has behaved this way since it was new.
I travel the highway to get to work (approx. 35 miles each way at speeds around 70mph) so the tires do heat up a bit. I can tell just by holding my hand on them that both edges are warmer than the middle. I tend to keep the front pressure up near 36psi as that seems to help reduce road noise. I just hope the new settings will rid this problem without losing the responsiveness that turned me onto this car in the beginning.
2000 CSVT (#289 of 2150)
1989 Mustang GT
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TomV,
Coutours require toe-out at the front and toe-in at the rear. Please reconfirm your front toe setting. The saw-tooth wear is due to camber and the toe-in condition on your vehicle.
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TSIN03SE, I appreciate the reply. Yes, I know the Contours require toe-out at the front, but my 3-1/2 yrs of Toe-Out â??in factory specificationâ? alignments haven't resolved my problem. The Toe-In setting was an experiment, and now after running that for a while, it didn't help either.
I'm just stumped that Ford didn't notice this in any early road tests under conditions similar to mine. It only takes 5-6K miles to notice the wear. My car ate the first set of tires early in its lifecycle. Perhaps I have had defective suspension components from the start?
Ed98.5SVT appears to have much better camber settings than I do. Can this be due to the different LCA design and different wheel that came on the earlier years? I am going to try to get a picture of my tire wear posted soon. Maybe that will help some visualize the problem easier.
P.S. sorry Ed98.5SVT I didnâ??t mean to highjack the post. You just managed to get the attention of some very knowledgeable people. Hopefully this is useful information to you also.
2000 CSVT (#289 of 2150)
1989 Mustang GT
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2000 CSVT (#289 of 2150)
1989 Mustang GT
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OP
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Originally posted by TomV:
Ed98.5SVT appears to have much better camber settings than I do. Can this be due to the different LCA design and different wheel that came on the earlier years? I am going to try to get a picture of my tire wear posted soon. Maybe that will help some visualize the problem easier.
P.S. sorry Ed98.5SVT I didnâ??t mean to highjack the post. You just managed to get the attention of some very knowledgeable people. Hopefully this is useful information to you also.
Ha, this post is very interesting. Keep it up. I was suprised to see where this ended up. 
1998.5 E1 SVT Contour #5482/6535
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Specialty Products, the makers of the C/C kit has descent articles on Alignments and "Tire Wear Diagnosis" Tire Wear Diagnosis If I had to guess my problem is one part feathering, one part wear on one edge and a hint of cupping. 
2000 CSVT (#289 of 2150)
1989 Mustang GT
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Originally posted by TomV:
Specialty Products, the makers of the C/C kit has descent articles on Alignments and "Tire Wear Diagnosis"
Tire Wear Diagnosis
If I had to guess my problem is one part feathering, one part wear on one edge and a hint of cupping.
This is a very good explanation of the common problems. You should be aware though that cupping can also happen from an alignment problem, usually toe but camber as well.
Treat the article as a guide but look deeper and make sure that it is all correct. No worn parts, toe setting correct, caster reasonable, and camber properly set.
I had cupping problems that did not go away until the negative camber was reduced by installing the caster/camber kits.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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Ok, I finally got my new SVT struts, new front control arms and BAT C/C kit installed. Sort of a PITA job, but at least it is done. I now have an alignment scheduled for this Saturday and I have a couple questions.
Ford 1998 Front Wheel Alignment Specs on the CDROM are as follows...
Castor Nominal 2.7 deg
Castor Tolerance Range 1.3 deg to 3.31 deg
Camber Nominal -0.53 deg
Camber Tolerance Range 0.77 deg to -1.83 deg
The problem with the specs above, is that I have developed tire wear when within them.
1). Does 1/16" Toe-out, -0.25 deg Camber and whatever max "positive" Caster happens to fall at sound ok, for the front?
2). Since the weight is supposed to be off the suspension for the C/C kit adjustment, how do you get the car to settle back to normal ride height without pulling it off the rack and driving it around?
Thanks!
2000 CSVT (#289 of 2150)
1989 Mustang GT
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