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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 9,872
Addicted CEG\'er
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Addicted CEG\'er
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 9,872 |
Originally posted by BP:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 
#0009
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,127
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,127 |
Originally posted by DJ Capp 911:
Originally posted by Andy W.:
Originally posted by Swazo:
No one is sending anyone kids to die! Our military is 100% voluntary.
Class has nothing to do with it.
-Andy
Your a complete ignoramus if you think class has nothing to do with it.
Rich white kids go to college, poor black kids that don't want to sell drugs go to the military.
not since WWII has the military been a serious viable option for americans from middle class america who were "doing their duty" When i graduate high school, the kids going to the military were all of the shop rats and [censored] ups. Not to say that everyone in the military is from that background, but lets be real, the majority of the us military are not from middle and upper class america
So how are you categorizing US (yes me too) veterans? I'm glad you were so in touch with my motives. To think, I thought I was serving my country and getting a college education, turning myself from a poor white guy to a middle class white guy at the same time.
So what if the rich don't serve in the military, they will never have the pride of knowing they did their part.
So stop with the class warfare already. I don't resent folks who were born with more money than I had growing up. Seems money just lets you get into more serious trouble, that's all and is a poor measure of the value of a person.
So you wanna do something about the difference between the rich and the poor? I'd suggest you stop envying the rich, and suggesting there is something inherently wrong with being either rich or poor and judge people by their actions and not the size of their bank account.
TB
"Seems like our society is more interested in turning each successive generation into cookie-cutter wankers than anything else." -- Jato 8/24/2004
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,149
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,149 |
Originally posted by BP:
doing good in school is not the same as pulling strings with political buddies to avoid being drafted.
But the result was the same, no? A draftee doing good in school keeps you just as far away from Asia as doing Guard duty.
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864 |
Originally posted by BP:
if 9/11 didn't happen it would be a lot more obvious how badly our country has done under his rule.
This is kind of an unfair statement. Had 9/11 not happened, Bush, could have focused his attention on other points of national concern.
To assume that with out 9/11 all other facets of Bush's administration would remain status quo is not a valid argument.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,489
Hard-core CEG\'er
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OP
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,489 |
Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
But the result was the same, no? A draftee doing good in school keeps you just as far away from Asia as doing Guard duty.
the results are the same yes. the means to the end is the difference for me though.
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467 |
Originally posted by Renee:
Originally posted by Antonio:
BUSH=9/11. Before 9/11 all President Bush was doing was playing golf. I remember telling a coworker about how it seems that he was always on vacation. Without 9/11, he would be a whisper in history.
Renee, your voting for a Draft Dodger? No, matter what can be said about Kerry. You must remember this. He went and fought. No skipping to the National Guard or getting deferments.
Yet, the right blindly follows this guy. It MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.
Antonio, I don't vote for draft dodgers. I in no way voted for Clinton. HAhahahahaha. Bush never dodged, he served, maybe not active duty and over in Vietnam, but you know what....... active duty, reserves, national guard, they are ALL military, no matter how they serve. I mean seriously, are you going to say my husband, who is active duty Air Force, is not doing a damn thing to help this war on terror just because he hasn't served in Iraq? That would be complete and utter bull. ALL military, no matter their branch or where they serve, are serving their country. The difference between Kerry and the rest of the people who have served is they don't shove it down everyone's throats like Kerry does. MANY MANY people have served this country in Vietnam, before Vietnam, and after, Kerry is nobody special. Many others have Purple Hearts, but they don't shove them in everyone's face saying "Nah nah look what I have."
Oh, and for those who don't think Kerry has lied.... what about the tossing of the medals thing? What about all the flip flops? What about his NOT supporting the military? What about his dissing of big corporations, yet he LIVES off the Heinz ketchup fortune. Kerry is an all out liar and hyporcrite worse than ANY politician I have ever seen.
I am not trying to sway anyone's votes. You'll vote how you want, this is how I will vote though. GW gets my vote.
Guess what? The difference is we don't have a draft right now. Plus, the Airforce right now is providing a support role in Iraq so most likely he would not be stationed in that country. Also, my comment meant no disrepect to your husband. So, don't go there. Vietnam was a way different time. President Bush found a convient way to get out of his duty while OTHERS did not have that chance.
Kerry would never get my vote. The man won't even stand on his to feet. On the other hand he STILL his more interigty then GWB. While Bush was living it up over in the US. Kerry and ten's of thousand like him were getting shot at and killed.
Yet, GWB is bieng hailed as a war time leader. You people need to take the blinders off your eyes.
Last edited by Antonio; 09/02/04 08:16 PM.
Now I hate America? That is a new one to me.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469 |
Hard to say....as pointed out many of the economic/employment issues are interrelated. His passed first major medicare changes in 20 years, no child left behind, major tax cuts at a critical time in a recession...could have been much worse per many economists. I think he would have a fighting chance.
One thing is clear...his opponent Kerry would still be a fraud. He is trying to sidestep a 20 year voting record left of the remained of even his own party, sidestep that he failed to vote most of the time, missed his committee meetings most of the time (no wonder he so good at 90 different leisure activities), horribly and almost single handedly hurt Vietnam Vet images here and abroad, and is absolutely without any rudder when it comes to holding a course on a position..
It was a gift for conservatives that Kerry was nominated. A more moderate candidate that had a spine may have taken the election. This could have been Lieberman's year (somewhat amazingly, given his Elmer Fud like resemblance). Now, I think dems are toast. The DNC convention killed him....emphasis ON his Vietnam record that was damaged bady by SBVets..emphasis OFF his voting record in the senate which Zel Miller just defined for him last night.
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,970
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,970 |
Originally posted by JaTo:
Originally posted by Swazo:
...We are now handeling the BS they created in the 80's and 90's.
1) Read about why we were working with the Mujahadeen of Afghanistan and why we stuck our noses in the Middle-East during these times.
Then come back and correct your statement here, as it most certainly wasn't BS back then...
Originally posted by Swazo:
Why should we give dubbya any credit for doing so, it was wrong then and still is today....especially since he lied to do it.
2) What did he lie about, pray tell? I hope you've done your home work here...
Originally posted by Swazo:
M. Moore brought up a good point about "sending your own kids off to die in Iraq". If anyone in the upper class had to consider that they may be sending their own kids to die, they may not be so quick to send them in harms way.
3) It's the worst point in existance. The US is a 100% voluntary force. One can't SEND their kids off to die...
Originally posted by Swazo:
We aren't the world's police, nor should our military be treated as such. So don't give me "they knew what they were signing up for". Yes I served in the military, so I'm speaking from my point of view. Look at what class of Americans are in the overall population of US military that are in Iraq and Afganistan.
4) What's your point? Show me where in history the US military was made up of nothing but middle-class and upper-class troops.
1) How about talking extensively about this issue with SF that actually went there to train them and why, does that count??  Reading about it is one thing, but hearing what multiple eye witness accounts is another. "Charlie Wilson's War" gave a good idea about what the CIA and US SF did, but didn't tell they whole story.
2) How about after the 9/11 attacks, when he spoke about what happened he threw in Iraq to boot. He "implied" (is that sugar coated enough for you?) that Iraq had something to do with what happened. Rather than focusing on who actually attacked us, he chose to clean up unfinished republican business and put what really needed to be done on the side burner. That is still the case.
3) To be objective, you need balance. Being "far right" or "far left" you believe what you want for various reasons....but most likely you haven't come up with your own thought, you regurgitate what you hear. Maybe you should talk to someone that has been to Iraq and ask them how safe it is. We shouldn't be there to begin with, so any death is unwarranted. IF more politicians had children serving as troops, then maybe they would put more consideration in where to send our troops and why.
4) Perhaps your should read about the Civil War. Class has and will always play a part in what the military is composed of and why. Enlisted troops will almost always be composed of lower/middle class people. Officers will almost always be upper middle to upper class. If you doubt that, maybe you should read up about how our military is assembled. I have read and experienced it first hand.
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone 
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,667
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,667 |
Originally posted by BP:
Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
Clinton did alot of dammage while he was in office, Bush inherited alot of bad from him; But no, Republicans don't blame all our problems on him, just the ones he actually created.
please advise us of all the economic 'damage' and 'bad' stuff clinton passed off to bush.
Both all and none. Clinton himself didn't pass on anything, just as he didn't do anything, just as Bush hasn't done anything BAD.
Bush's problems started in March of 2000 (before he had even won the Republican nomination...), when the Nasdaq peaked at over 5000 (5048 on March 10, to be exact). By the end of 2000, the Nasdaq was at 2500, HALF of its value. You blame Bush for that?? Within the first 3 months of his presidency the Nasdaq was down to roughly 1800. Bush couldn't have possibly been the cause of that. Its currently trading at almost 1900... not a huge increase over the term, but its a lot better than when the Nasdaq was flirting with 1000 in the last quarter of '02.
Definition of "Recession" is two consecutive quarters of a decrease in real GDP. The only two decreases in real gdp (according to the BEA), came in the FIRST quarter of 2001... again, when he couldn't POSSIBLY do anything about it, and the third quarter of 2001.
So what has Bush done right? In 3Q 2003, he posted a bigger quater-to-quarter gain than Clinton EVER did (7.4% vs. 7.3 max for Clin-tone).
Convinced that its not Bush's fault?
Diesel owns you
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,667
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,667 |
Originally posted by Andy W.:
Originally posted by Antonio:
Yet, the right blindly follows this guy. It MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.
And the left doesn't blindly follow Kerry?
-Andy
And Michael Moore
Diesel owns you
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