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Originally posted by Andy W.:
Originally posted by Swazo:
M. Moore brought up a good point about "sending your own kids off to die in Iraq". If anyone in the upper class had to consider that they may be sending their own kids to die, they may not be so quick to send them in harms way. We aren't the world's police, nor should our military be treated as such. Yes I served in the military, so I'm speaking from my point of view. Look at what class of Americans are in the overall population of US military that are in Iraq and Afganistan.
No one is sending anyone kids to die! Our military is 100% voluntary.
Class has nothing to do with it.
-Andy
So does that mean they should be used for a political agenda? That's all this is. Regan esentially put Bin Laden into the position he is today, he placed US SF to train them to fight the Soviets....a world power. Now that threat is gone, the monster they created is now running wild.
The same can be said about Iraq when fighting Iran.
The ends do not justify the means. The nightly news is proof enough. Yes, our military is 100% voluntary. That doesn;t give our politicians the right to wield them like white out, to cover their f^%& ups. 
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone 
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Good policy should leave individual relationships out of it. I am not making any endorsement or criticism of a particular military action. However, a true leader isn't going to think differently because it's his/her kid versus someone else's. A true leader is going to look at the action as good/bad for our country.
On the actions of the 1980's and how they ended up today. I personally think Reagan made the right decisions for the world in which he made them. The world changed, and now what was done for the greater strategy needs to be altered.
Hindsight is always 20/20. If we knew then only what we knew then, the case is a lot different.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Originally posted by Swazo:
M. Moore brought up a good point about "sending your own kids off to die in Iraq".
No, it's not a good point. Moore (and this is why I can't stand him) used a biased question. The way the question is phrased it's as if sending someone over to Iraq is the equivalent of shooting them in the head. Not everyone sent to Iraq is going to die, in fact a vast majority of them won't.
Or how about this:
Would you allow your child to drive a car knowing that tens of thousands of poeople die in car accidents each year?
Would you allow your child to walk down the street knowing thousands of people are murdered/kidnapped each year?
Would you allow you child to move to the midwest knowing tornados kill hundreds of people each year?
See, I can do it too.
There is danger everywhere, wheather it's a bullet from an iraqis ak47 or a cancer cell or a drunk driver or a bolt of lightning.
More people die from cigarettes each year than will ever die in Iraq.
Tan 98 Contour V6 ATX
-BAT intake, SVT exhaust, SVT suspension, Stazi brakes, superchip, opt TB, opt Y
"Max Power never abbreviates, each letter is as important as the one that preceeded it. Maybe even MORE important... no, as important."
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So that makes it ok to send troops to Iraq, because of that reasoning? Whatever makes you sleep at night, obviously it hasn't hit close enough to home to make you think outside of what the media tells you 
Moore means nada to me and I don't care what he says. I liked what he said, just because of the idea it brought up. I'm thinking of the US military that is being put into harms way because of political mishaps of years past. More thought should be put into IF we should send our soldiers into harms way or not...... not just because we can.
Afganistan is where we should be focused on, screw Iraq.
Edit: Back to the true nature of this post, no Bush would've faded out as the idiot he is w/o 9/11. But, kudos to him for upping our military funding Clinton cut. 
Last edited by Swazo; 09/02/04 04:57 AM.
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
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That is true it is 100 percent voluntary. However, I have seen the number of voluntares much less under the current President......
This guy needs to go.....he is disorganized, has a tough time speaking and has contibuted to basic Geneva Convention violations via Rumsfield and his policies.....
I am on a physical and mentally NO CARB diet...
No Cheny
No Ashcroft
No Rumsfield
No Bush
And definitely no RICE!!!
An ounce of prevention provides a pound of cure!
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b0x @dm1n
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b0x @dm1n
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Originally posted by btrautman:
That is true it is 100 percent voluntary. However, I have seen the number of voluntares much less under the current President......
It wasn't this president is was 9/11 that did that. And where is your proof, other than what you "see."
Quote:
This guy needs to go.....he is disorganized, has a tough time speaking and has contibuted to basic Geneva Convention violations via Rumsfield and his policies.....
Their policies? The Geneva Convetion was violated by a few soldiers in one prison. It was discovered and investigated 3 months before the press got wind of it. I.E. the accused were going on trial.
Quote:
I am on a physical and mentally NO CARB diet...
No Cheny
No Ashcroft
No Rumsfield
No Bush
And definitely no RICE!!!
^ That being one of the worst play on words!
I'm on a no retard diet, including bleeding heart liberals that belive no American is responsible for thier own actions barring Republican government officials.
-Andy
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
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Originally posted by Swazo:
...We are now handeling the BS they created in the 80's and 90's.
Read about why we were working with the Mujahadeen of Afghanistan and why we stuck our noses in the Middle-East during these times.
Then come back and correct your statement here, as it most certainly wasn't BS back then...
Originally posted by Swazo:
Why should we give dubbya any credit for doing so, it was wrong then and still is today....especially since he lied to do it.
What did he lie about, pray tell? I hope you've done your home work here...
Originally posted by Swazo:
M. Moore brought up a good point about "sending your own kids off to die in Iraq". If anyone in the upper class had to consider that they may be sending their own kids to die, they may not be so quick to send them in harms way.
It's the worst point in existance. The US is a 100% voluntary force. One can't SEND their kids off to die...
Originally posted by Swazo:
We aren't the world's police, nor should our military be treated as such. So don't give me "they knew what they were signing up for". Yes I served in the military, so I'm speaking from my point of view. Look at what class of Americans are in the overall population of US military that are in Iraq and Afganistan.
What's your point? Show me where in history the US military was made up of nothing but middle-class and upper-class troops.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
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Honestly, I'd say the question is about as speculative as "How would Gore have handled 9/11?" It assumes that we can guess what would have happened in a world where the WTC never came crashing down...maybe China would have gotten ambitious and gone after Taiwan, or North Korea invading South Korea, or maybe nothing at all would have happened and an economic recovery would have taken place in winter of 2001/spring of 2002. WHO KNOWS?
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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Originally posted by btrautman:
That is true it is 100 percent voluntary. However, I have seen the number of voluntares much less under the current President......
Actually, that's not true. There has been a rise in the number of people signing up for the military since 9-11 happened, alot of those were actually people who had previously served who wanted to come back. My hub is one of those, although he came back in the military a few months BEFORE 9-11 happened.
Most military vote for Bush because they know they will be get the funding they need for pay raises for the military, money for weapons, and stuff.
Also, you people have got to STOP blaming Bush for the damn recession. It was Clinton's fault and the Bush group inherited this problem when W came into office. He's been trying to fix this and has done a damn good job of it.
Would I re-elect W if 9-11 didn't happen? Well, if the same candidates were up for the election, HELL YEAH. I honestly haven't seen Bush do anything that would warrant me voting for another person. Most people claim they wouldn't vote for him soley because of the war on Iraq, well people, I've said it once, I will say it again. Saddam has made threats against the US. I can't specifically say what, because I really haven't looked into it. Think about this though, if Saddam made the threats, and W didn't do anything about it, and Saddam attacked us, you'd all be whining and screaming because Bush DIDN'T do anything about it. Since he DID do something about it BEFORE Saddam could, now you are whining because Bush "started" it. Get over it people. You want your freedom, or do you want to whine over the rights of people who commit terrorism and kill their OWN countrymen, let alone what they have done to Americans.
I, for one, am GLAD Bush is in office, and I will vote for him again. Kerry can spout all the sh!t he wants about Vietnam and what a "hero" he was, but he's such a puss and a liar. The man is a traitor against his own brothers and sisters in arms when he came back from Vietnam and called his fellow soldiers "Baby killers" and "murderers".
Kerry has NO stance on the issues. For him, it's ALL about his Vietnam service and his damn Purple Hearts. Well, I tell you what. Having been in Vietman and received Purple Hearts doesn't make you sh!t when you are a liar and traitor. I had a Purple Heart winner/POW hit my Contour, then try to lie to the insurance company about it. LIAR.
I am not saying ALL Purple Heart winners are liars, but Kerry is a proven liar. Simple as that.
FOUR MORE YEARS. FOUR MORE YEARS.
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OP
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actually i guess it depends on who you listen to. in discussion with my aunt (salute to her) she's confided to me that they've had challenges in recruiting and the retention rates were expected to drop. it sucks for them because they're concerned about pay cuts and lower compensation for imminent danger and family separation allowances proposed by the bush admin.
lol @ repbulicans still blaming clinton for all of their shortfallings. i'm pretty sure bush started with a large surplus and has spent it all off or tax cut it all to hel!. he can't own up to his 'miscalculations' on the iraq war and flip flops himself when thinking about whether the war on terrorism can be won. so he blames it on our intelligence agencies or clinton.
again it really makes no sense to attack kerry's war record especially when bush seemingly had a lot of help avoiding combat himself. but of course bush served in the reserves as a pilot so that equals it all out...BS!
personally i can't put up with "FOUR MORE YEARS" of double talk, miscalculations, less than optimal run gov, and badly planned and unnecessary wars.
this election atmosphere is really making me HATE politics and politicians. they're all slimy s cumbags as far as i'm concerned.
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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