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Originally posted by arch:
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No wonder you are failing in your point here.
huh?
Open your eyes... maybe you need to re-read what has been said.
arch, you and red are the only two at planet CEG who see this situation as you purport. The fact that the both of you are relative newcomers to CEG and are getting lambasted in this discussion should be a hint that this isn't a forum stacked with your fellow Fast&theFurious wannabe's.
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Just because something is hard to do, or maybe injure a cop, doesnt mean that they cant do it. Cops sign up to risk their lives every day, they know they have to, to preserve life. Boxing the car in is definately a pluasable soultion.
Boxing in is not about injuring a cop; it's about killing a cop, and the perpetrator, and innocent bystanders. Boxing in just isn't done often anymore. It has nothing to do with how "hard" something is, but how likely someone is to be killed.
If it was just about how "hard" it was, I'm sure the cop would rather not have to go through the investigation process after having killed someone. And if it was all about how "hard" it was he definetely wouldn't be doing something as difficult and self-endangering as the PIT maneuver on an SUV at 110MPH.
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Spike strips would also work, there are spikes that rip apart the tire at low speeds to stop a car, and there are spike strips that are just large needles which deflate the tires for high speeds.
Spike Strips are far from 100% safe. Even the hollow ones designed to deflate over a short distance. Drivers, particularly in SUVs, lose control and flip with greater frequency than during the PIT maneuver which generally does not go as badly as in this case. When effective, most drivers continue on despite their blown tires, usually pulling off the freeway and into city traffic (not a concern here). And there's been dozens of occassions where the officers deploying the strips have been struck and killed by the perpetrator.
This is probably the 'best' option to go with aside from the PIT maneuver, but would require extensive coordination with surrounding departments which is difficult at best and would have meant continuing the chase likely an additional 15-25 miles to where additional officers would be at and the conditions of the roadway met guidelines meeting the requirements for spike strip deployment.
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Letting the cops back off and following the car with a chopper is another pluasable soultion.
Possibly. Except we had no chopper in this case and were over 75 miles away from Atlanta. Even if a chopper had been called within the first 10 minutes, the chase would still continue for over an hour before a chopper would be on scene.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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Oh because we're new to the forum, we have no intelligence now. Geez, you guys will come up with anything. First its post numbers, now its when the name was regged?   
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My bicycle has four wheel disc brakes
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CEG\'er
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DAMN, the point is SOMETHING else SHOULDVE BEEN DONE
AND there were many other soultions that COULD've BEEN EMPLOYED.
How much more simply would you like me to put it?
Last edited by arch; 08/31/04 06:58 PM.
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My bicycle has four wheel disc brakes
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Originally posted by arch:
DAMN, the point is SOMETHING else SHOULDVE BEEN DONE
How much more simply would you like me to put it?
The point is you haven't come up with anything that would have likely resulted in less fatalities than their solution did.
If they did the spike strip and the SUV rolled and they died -- we'd still be having this argument.
If they did the chopper thing, and in the midst of the hour long chase 4 cars were forced off the road and killeed 4 people -- we'd still be having this argument.
If they boxed in the car and the SUV rammed the front car, locking bumpers with the cop and spinning out of control killing the occupants and the cop -- we'd still be having this argument.
No matter what the cops did, if the people in the SUV or any innocent bystanders were killed, you'd still be having a cow over the whole thing. And all the available options were at least as likely to result in fatalities as the PIT maneuver was.
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by sigma:
Originally posted by arch:
DAMN, the point is SOMETHING else SHOULDVE BEEN DONE
How much more simply would you like me to put it?
The point is you haven't come up with anything that would have likely resulted in less fatalities than their solution did.
If they did the spike strip and the SUV rolled and they died -- we'd still be having this argument.
If they did the chopper thing, and in the midst of the hour long chase 4 cars were forced off the road and killeed 4 people -- we'd still be having this argument.
If they boxed in the car and the SUV rammed the front car, locking bumpers with the cop and spinning out of control killing the occupants and the cop -- we'd still be having this argument.
No matter what the cops did, if the people in the SUV or any innocent bystanders were killed, you'd still be having a cow over the whole thing. And all the available options were at least as likely to result in fatalities as the PIT maneuver was.
BULL $H*T
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My bicycle has four wheel disc brakes
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There's a whole lot of shoulda coulda woulda going on in this thread. What's done is done. My sister's fiance was a passenger in a car where his friend was getting pulled over for speeding, but his friend decided to make a run for it. They were both arrested. In the case of the police using the PIT maneuver, which resulted in the deaths of the occupants of the car, the determination was made to remove the threat to others on the road. Yes, police are to protect and serve, and they were protecting the public. It's called choosing the lesser of two evils. Should you remove the threat that one SUV was posing to the general public at large? Or should you allow them to continue on their merry way, endangering the lives of countless drivers and passengers on the roads? They chose to remove the one vehicle from the road, which resulted in death for those that were in that vehicle, also resulting in safer roads at the time-being for the greater good. Were there safer measures that could have been used? I've seen several suggestions. Spike strips at that rate of speed would have caused the SUV to lose control, just like the PIT maneuver did. Maybe they should have got those really cool electrical cut-off thingies like in 2F2F - all the way from Hollywood! And if they do exist in real life, chances are those things are expensive, and not every department can afford them. Heck, there are still some fire departments who don't have thermal cameras yet, and still others are in the process of purchasing "jaws-of-life" equipment. You use what's available to you. I've seen some good points made in this argument, and I won't regurgitate what was said, but I will repeat this, I don't think either side is going change its mind. But hey! it's still fun to read! Carry on! 
Yeah, I'm a troll...
2000 Saab 9-5 SE
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Yeah, because your opinion of what could/should have been done in a situation you have no direct knowledge of really outweighs that of the experts in offensive driving, ATO, and vehicular dynamics...
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Originally posted by sigma:
Yeah, because your opinion of what could/should have been done in a situation you have no direct knowledge of really outweighs that of the experts in offensive driving, ATO, and vehicular dynamics...
Become a comedian, because I just cant stop laughing.
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My bicycle has four wheel disc brakes
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Since I assume it's not you that we're laughing at, please let me in on your part of the joke.
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