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#1037713 09/04/04 12:35 AM
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DemonSVT


At the risk of starting a war.......I just think you would find this thread interesting.....


http://www.fordcontour.org/fcoforums/showthread.php?t=4099


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Bob


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#1037714 09/05/04 03:39 AM
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It is very interesting but really too basic. Though it was a direct response to the old "garden hose" posts.

For instance it does not account for the distance difference from one end to the other.

It takes a higher pressure to travel a further distance while moving the same volume of liquid. In other words "at the same pressure" the "end" is getting less volume then the "beginning". (frictional losses and flow theory)
If that pressure drops or fluctuates then the end gets even less comparatively because of the distance difference factor. So therefore in theory the end could be lacking sufficient oil "volume" while the beginning is not.
That's even with out total loss of oil pressure. As in the typical brief oil light flicker and then bearing failure. (Which too many of us have had oil starvation failures )

Also it does not take into account oiling passage and hole size or possible restrictors. The smaller or more restricted their size the less volume at a given base pressure. (conservation of energy) Also the less pressure after the respective restriction to start with. So a pressure loss before it equates to even a lower pressure comparatively after it as well.

Then add those 2 factors together and you can at least start to see where my thinking is coming from.


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#1037715 09/05/04 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
It is very interesting but really too basic.




Too basic???????? motors aren't rocket science. These are simple oiling systems. There are no reliefs, valves, etc. A pump and passageways that's it. The problem now a days is everyone looks past the "basics"


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#1037716 09/05/04 08:51 PM
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Could the apparent lack of oiling problems in the 3.0L engines also but due to them being used in vehicles not likely to see high lateral G-forces (Taurus), or being mounted longitudinally (Escape)? It seems that the majority of engine failures from oil starvation which have been chronicled on these forums happened during or shortly after high-G right hand turns (though my own engine failure had nothing to do with that).

That high-G rught hand turn would pull the oil away from the pick-up, and the high RPMs and low oil drainback volume in the heads would further reduce the available oil in the pan.

Several elements here, but they add up to one disaster.


95 Contour SE ATX V6- SOLD 2001.5 VW Passat GLX V6 Tiptronic 2004 Honda VTX 1800N1 There are no stupid questions. There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
#1037717 09/05/04 11:37 PM
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The 2.5 in the car I bought was going straight down the road when it went.


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#1037718 09/06/04 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Sandman333:
That high-G rught hand turn would pull the oil away from the pick-up, and the high RPMs and low oil drainback volume in the heads would further reduce the available oil in the pan.



You mean the lack of sufficient head returns like the 3L block HAS and the 2.5L does NOT. (3 total extra oil returns)


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#1037719 09/06/04 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
Too basic???????? motors aren't rocket science. These are simple oiling systems. There are no reliefs, valves, etc. A pump and passageways that's it. The problem now a days is everyone looks past the "basics"



You seem to be missing the point.

The analogy of a sprinkler dropping was "too basic" as a comparison. I even gave some of my reasoning to explain my thinking.

Also the size of the passageways DOES matter. "Basically" re-read my post please.
Yes the rods bearings are fed by smaller passageways if that's your next question.


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#1037720 09/06/04 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
Too basic???????? motors aren't rocket science. These are simple oiling systems. There are no reliefs, valves, etc. A pump and passageways that's it. The problem now a days is everyone looks past the "basics"



You seem to be missing the point.

The analogy of a sprinkler dropping was "too basic" as a comparison. I even gave some of my reasoning to explain my thinking.

Also the size of the passageways DOES matter. "Basically" re-read my post please.
Yes the rods bearings are fed by smaller passageways if that's your next question.




Yes I know the passageways size does matter. There size will directly effect pressure. When did I say the passageways do not matter?????? Now if the passageway becomes smaller from blockage(sand,zircon,dirt etc)The pressure needed to pass through it will increase. Which could eventually starve the bearing of proper oil needed.

Also the distance is very short from pump to bearings.....what maybe 18-20 inches? Maybe I'll have to bust out the old Vickers lightning reference handbook.

Well if the sprinkler head is too basic then what is a good comparison?

The closet I can come up with is the waylube sytems in lathes,mills,and grinders. And those are unfiltered so they are actually even more simple.

Last edited by Thinkmoto; 09/06/04 12:55 PM.

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#1037721 09/06/04 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Sandman333:
Could the apparent lack of oiling problems in the 3.0L engines also but due to them being used in vehicles not likely to see high lateral G-forces (Taurus), or being mounted longitudinally (Escape)?




The escape engine is mounted transversely


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#1037722 09/07/04 02:11 AM
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Like what sometimes occurs at the office.......I should have never said anything.....

Bob


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