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Joined: Jun 2003
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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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Firstly, I'd like to apologize to Contorted for making the statement that derailed his thread. Now that we are here, however, let me say this: specific output is a useless statistic, unless we are talking about some sort of divisional racing where displacement is limited. IMO, it doesn't matter how big the engine is that's producing the power, it matters how powerful it is versus the weight of the car. *Hypothetical race aftermath* "OMFG, I just blew your doors off!" "Yeah, but your engine is twice the size of mine!" "Why thank you. Now pay up."  Demon, I usually value and respect your opinion and knowledge, however callous it is at times. This time, I must disagree with you. One statement at a time. You have a 3L SVT that is low compression because there is a turbo huffing positive pressure into that intake, correct? I know you just forgot to mention the hairdryer under the hood.  I don't know where the heck you're going to find a 3L Saturn to race you, because most of them are doing exactly what my wife's does, daily commute + hauling a small child around. Do you really think the Saturn would be that far behind if it had all the mods that built 3L has? Your 2.5L with just bolt-ons was a second faster. How many bolt ons? LOL. One second? I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to wring another second out of that 24v DOHC V6. Even with an ATX. Of course, in our case, that will stay theoretical, if not simply for the fact that it's my wife's daily driver, then for the fact that we already have fast cars. 182 h.p./190 lb.-ft. isn't a bad rating for a mass produced, affordable sedan. And you guys are always talking about flat torque bands.. I just think it's neat that my wife can line up next to an SVTC, or any other car in that eschelon of the performance hierarchy (or, more easily, any iteration of the Cavalier), and if that driver isn't at the VERY top of their game, she can take them. While sipping on her latte'.  This is not to mention the excellent service she gets at the dealership. Or the fact that the fit & finish puts the Ford's to shame. Or the cupholders you don't have to MODIFY to get them to hold cups. Or the better safety ratings. I'm not saying I don't like my SVTC better. I do. I'm glad I got it. The 'tour is a stick shift, it's more fun to drive. It's just threads like these that make me realize how closed-minded people are. And yes, I do realize this is a Ford-centric website. 
'99 SVT Contour #535/2760, born 11/30/98. Toreador Red / Prairie Tan
Wife's car: '00 Saturn LS2. Dk. Toreador Red (no joke) / Graphite
Sunday Bruiser: '67 Camaro rs/SS350 4 spd. Ermine White / Custom Yellow
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 568
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I have a low compression 3L SVT.
Where is the custom tuned 3L Saturn to race me???
I hope the modifications can make up over 2 seconds though.
Even my tuned 2.5L with just bolt ons was well over 1 second faster. Surely the 3L Saturn with bolt ons and tuning could catch that right?
I mean 182/190 from a 3L is stellar numbers. Well for 80's maybe...
Yes I agree it's probably a bit under rated considering.
Greg -
I don't know who exactly is making this a 'what if' war between the Saturn and the SVT, but it most certainly isn't me. The only comparison I've made between them is to mention it runs similar times to a stock SVT--which apparently has put some of us here into a utopian-bench-racing tirade of displacement and specific-power comparisons.
If your post is directed at me then you're barking up the wrong tree...I'm not defending the car--it's not my cup of tea in the first place. That's for the owners participating in this thread if they care to do so.
B. Riley
Melbourne, FL
'01 Camry LE V6/5-spd
Was: '00 Black/Tan SVT Contour #560 - Sold 3/26/03
Before that: '95 Champ/Blue Contour GL V6 ATX
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Posts: 568
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 568 |
Originally posted by JonnySVT:
As anyone does, you are defending the cars you have liked for one reason or another, it happens to everyone.
Please point out where I'm defending it? Perhaps it's lost on you, but my comments of "3200# rig", "slushbox-only", "untuned", "pulled along by an Opel V6", and "the looks could get only a Frigidair to breathing heavy" are most certainly not forms of defense, flattery, or admiration.
If I 'like' the car, I'd sure like to know why, because I've never had a love affair with any Saturn, and even if I did, I'd be embarrassed to tell anyone.
B. Riley
Melbourne, FL
'01 Camry LE V6/5-spd
Was: '00 Black/Tan SVT Contour #560 - Sold 3/26/03
Before that: '95 Champ/Blue Contour GL V6 ATX
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Ryan
Trollin!
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Posts: 839
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Shove it, crackwhore. I loved my old Saturn. Them plastic panels were awesome, I would always jumpkick my car, just because I could.
The Spickle
New Car: Infra Red '04 FSVT
Former Car: Black '98 CSVT, #3137/6535 "The Unluckiest car.. ever"
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Tavis426:
Firstly, I'd like to apologize to Contorted for making the statement that derailed his thread. Now that we are here, however, let me say this:
specific output is a useless statistic, unless we are talking about some sort of divisional racing where displacement is limited. IMO, it doesn't matter how big the engine is that's producing the power, it matters how powerful it is versus the weight of the car.
*Hypothetical race aftermath*
"OMFG, I just blew your doors off!"
"Yeah, but your engine is twice the size of mine!"
"Why thank you. Now pay up."
Demon, I usually value and respect your opinion and knowledge, however callous it is at times. This time, I must disagree with you. One statement at a time.
You have a 3L SVT that is low compression because there is a turbo huffing positive pressure into that intake, correct? I know you just forgot to mention the hairdryer under the hood.
I don't know where the heck you're going to find a 3L Saturn to race you, because most of them are doing exactly what my wife's does, daily commute + hauling a small child around.
Do you really think the Saturn would be that far behind if it had all the mods that built 3L has?
Your 2.5L with just bolt-ons was a second faster. How many bolt ons? LOL. One second? I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to wring another second out of that 24v DOHC V6. Even with an ATX. Of course, in our case, that will stay theoretical, if not simply for the fact that it's my wife's daily driver, then for the fact that we already have fast cars.
182 h.p./190 lb.-ft. isn't a bad rating for a mass produced, affordable sedan. And you guys are always talking about flat torque bands..
I just think it's neat that my wife can line up next to an SVTC, or any other car in that eschelon of the performance hierarchy (or, more easily, any iteration of the Cavalier), and if that driver isn't at the VERY top of their game, she can take them. While sipping on her latte'.
This is not to mention the excellent service she gets at the dealership. Or the fact that the fit & finish puts the Ford's to shame. Or the cupholders you don't have to MODIFY to get them to hold cups. Or the better safety ratings.
I'm not saying I don't like my SVTC better. I do. I'm glad I got it. The 'tour is a stick shift, it's more fun to drive. It's just threads like these that make me realize how closed-minded people are.
And yes, I do realize this is a Ford-centric website.
Demon has a turbo?  when did that happen, last i checked he was all motor 13's  Hey, no one said anything is wrong with Saturn's. It's just not a car that you see on the road and go "Holy poop it's SATURN LS2 w/ opel powered v6"  It's more like, Hey my mom drives one those! I have to admit BLK560 the neat tidbits you know about Saturns or took the time to research, makes you appear as a bonified enthusiast  not that there is anything wrong with that. To each is own, rock on! 
#3162 of 6535
98 SVT Silver frost
Viper Responder 791 w/ 2way remote start 
Let the modding begin!
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Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Shove it, crackwhore. I loved my old Saturn. Them plastic panels were awesome, I would always jumpkick my car, just because I could.
Bwhahahahaha  that is awesome...
#3162 of 6535
98 SVT Silver frost
Viper Responder 791 w/ 2way remote start
Let the modding begin!
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Tavis426:
You have a 3L SVT that is low compression because there is a turbo huffing positive pressure into that intake, correct? I know you just forgot to mention the hairdryer under the hood.
rofl, no. Demon runs N/A. No boost. No nawz. Just motor.
Originally posted by Tavis426:
I just think it's neat that my wife can line up next to an SVTC, or any other car in that eschelon of the performance hierarchy (or, more easily, any iteration of the Cavalier), and if that driver isn't at the VERY top of their game, she can take them. While sipping on her latte'.
Hilarious. You make me chuckle.
EDIT: Oh ya, almost forgot. I was going to mention that maybe these "factory freaks" are those that have been broken in "strong" and run strong, and maybe the others have been broken in with the "baby" method. I personally broke my new 3L in strong
Last edited by rkneeshaw3.0; 08/25/04 02:28 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 240
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 240 |
O.k., After checking Demon's link to his car site, I realize that I was wrong about F/I in the Demonmobile (He did say he has plans for it, though). Color me impressed. Truly. Something made me think it was, but I must have been jumping to conclusions. I usually try not to do that.
Rkneeshaw, I do try to add a dose of humor to my posts, and my everyday life in general. I feel it helps make life worth living.
Back to the factory freak thing, I don't doubt that the break in period has something to do with the way a car runs from there on. I also believe, as I stated before, that some cars from the same assembly line are just put together better than others.
'99 SVT Contour #535/2760, born 11/30/98. Toreador Red / Prairie Tan
Wife's car: '00 Saturn LS2. Dk. Toreador Red (no joke) / Graphite
Sunday Bruiser: '67 Camaro rs/SS350 4 spd. Ermine White / Custom Yellow
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Originally posted by Tavis426:
Firstly, I'd like to apologize to Contorted for making the statement that derailed his thread. Now that we are here, however, let me say this:
specific output is a useless statistic, unless we are talking about some sort of divisional racing where displacement is limited. IMO, it doesn't matter how big the engine is that's producing the power, it matters how powerful it is versus the weight of the car.
*Hypothetical race aftermath*
"OMFG, I just blew your doors off!"
"Yeah, but your engine is twice the size of mine!"
"Why thank you. Now pay up."
Demon, I usually value and respect your opinion and knowledge, however callous it is at times. This time, I must disagree with you. One statement at a time.
You have a 3L SVT that is low compression because there is a turbo huffing positive pressure into that intake, correct? I know you just forgot to mention the hairdryer under the hood.
I don't know where the heck you're going to find a 3L Saturn to race you, because most of them are doing exactly what my wife's does, daily commute + hauling a small child around.
Do you really think the Saturn would be that far behind if it had all the mods that built 3L has?
Your 2.5L with just bolt-ons was a second faster. How many bolt ons? LOL. One second? I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to wring another second out of that 24v DOHC V6. Even with an ATX. Of course, in our case, that will stay theoretical, if not simply for the fact that it's my wife's daily driver, then for the fact that we already have fast cars.
182 h.p./190 lb.-ft. isn't a bad rating for a mass produced, affordable sedan. And you guys are always talking about flat torque bands..
I just think it's neat that my wife can line up next to an SVTC, or any other car in that eschelon of the performance hierarchy (or, more easily, any iteration of the Cavalier), and if that driver isn't at the VERY top of their game, she can take them. While sipping on her latte'.
This is not to mention the excellent service she gets at the dealership. Or the fact that the fit & finish puts the Ford's to shame. Or the cupholders you don't have to MODIFY to get them to hold cups. Or the better safety ratings.
I'm not saying I don't like my SVTC better. I do. I'm glad I got it. The 'tour is a stick shift, it's more fun to drive. It's just threads like these that make me realize how closed-minded people are.
And yes, I do realize this is a Ford-centric website.
All your questions on Gregs car can be answered at his website!!
http://home.kc.rr.com/newshore/Cars/SVT.html
Oh by the way....he doesn't have a T/c or a S/c....its an NA car.....your very miss informed if you came to that conclusion.
Currently (next to David Z'z old car) he is the fastes N/A 3 liter around (for contours that is).
Lupe
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
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