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Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
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Sand in the oil no matter what kind of oil is bad period!!!!Instant internal failure..I've seen the results of collapsed air intakes on ATV's...Complete carnage of a motor in minutes. I think some are getting off lucky with just a spun bearing or 2. Hell of alot cheaper then a complete motor rebuild.
I know this, but I don't understand how all of a sudden the sand can just jump either from the gallies or were ever and reach the bearing quickly, i.e. hard right turns. Its not like the oil is all of a sudden going through those passage ways on just the hard turns. Though this maybe all irrevelant as that may have been a totaly different issue, i.e. updated oil pans. Everything is specualtion. Hopefully one day will find an answer, or better yet Ford 
Originally posted by touredon:
Originally posted by Ronan:
...there are not many Mondys that have spun bearings...
OK. If this is true in that there is very little or no bearing problem accross the pond, would you not be able to conclude that it's not the casting process at all?
It seams to me that if the Cosworth casting process is receiving the blame, it'd be across the board wouldn't ya think?
Is this fact? 24V Mondeos don't have the same degree of bearing problems as North American cars?
Maybe there is sand in the water passages over seas and the water is not going to the head, and there for blowing headgaskets  . Or maybe Ford America cheapen the process over here in several ways and our molds are bad, likely 
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You folks are lumping multiple problems together. The 2.5L has the oil starvation problem. Hence the right hand sweeper failures  , multiple revised oil pans, oil pickup, crank windage tray, oil dipstick, etc. The 3L block has the suspected zircon problem from the 3L Duratec mold. (it's the mold not the actual process that is "suspect" ) Also it's only a casting range of an unknown time frame. It is not every single one that has the small chance for this contamination. Brad's advice is likely the best insurance. Buy a block with some miles on it and do a full tear down and cleaning. It would be the best way to reduce the chance of being a "hit" Personally I saw nothing in my block when I had it apart nor when I cleaned out the passages. I'd sure like to keep it that way.
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I was under the impression that both 2.5 and 3.0 blocks were suspect, aren't both bearing failures in the same spot  .
'99 Silver svt
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Originally posted by livinsvt:
1. I was under the impression that both 2.5 and 3.0 blocks were suspect
2.aren't both bearing failures in the same spot .
1. That's not the impression given.
Also they do not even use the same molds because the block castings are different.
2. No specific bearing failure is labeled for the "suspected" zircon failures. Nothing has even been proven regarding the handful of 3L failures posted in the net. (hence my whole passing the buck comment and pointing out the 3L rebuild instructions are wrong when it comes to rod bolts)
Going by what information is available it would cause a main bearing failure not a rod bearing.
The 2.5L oil related failures are on either of the last 2 rod bearings.
#6 is the most prevalent and that makes sense since it's the first to lose oil when pressure drops.
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It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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THAT is the problem!...no known 'batch' or start point, be it 3.0 OR 2.5!!!!!Time to gets some QC engineers and hang em out!!!!...can you guss at the thousands of engines that may have this issue...and the owners out of warranty!!!! ...I think the 'who knows' statement still agrees with it being hit or miss....there are no rules of thumb to go by.Most 2.5's died between 45.85,000, will it be the same on a 3.0?...who knows...but I can tell you that some Escape 'new' vechicles died with sand as low as 5,000.... Demon Terry seems to think otherwise about the 2.5L or am I reading you him wrong????? I personally feel both 2.5L and 3L are both doomed motors no matter what.
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
That's not the 3L's fault and yes I'm being a mean SOB because people like passing the buck just too damn much!
I'm not passing the buck. I don't think Terry is either. His engines ahven't had any problems due to him. The only issue was cpasut's but that was due to a chain going. His was a casualty to the bad batch. That's how the timing chain issue came about. The only other thing I can think of is poor conrod's. But as Demon stated tons out there running fine. Is their something about some of the 01+ conrod's? All I know is I'm going to have someone go through this engine & I'm throwing it in. If it dies then the car is getting parted out.
I don't know, you tell me.
I haven't thrown a rod or spun any bearings even though I live in hot climates and run a thicker than recommended oil.
I have tested out 3 sets of connecting rods, 98, 99 and 01.
None have broke. These last set have sustained 330 ft-lbs of torque and up to 7000 rpms. I tuned it back down to around 300 ft-lbs when I left just so the tires weren't shredded but still not an issue.
I take take it easy on my motors but I take care of them.
This is probably just some sensationalism brought on by a premature ejaculation from some skeptical data.
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I was told that it would not make it all the way into the filter.
With that said - Even if it did it would be passing through the entire system to get there.
That would make sense if the problem is after the filter location in the oil gallery and before the oil drains. (which feed the pan/pickup)
That means this material could defintely do it's damage before it circulated back to the filter. It it even made it that far without collecting somewhere.
Now the hit to miss rate must be extremely low but even still that's a crazy thing to "miss"
Really though, how significant do you think it would be? Many of these engines being used here are AFTER they have been swapped hybrid or not and after the lower end has been pulled apart and new bearings put in. They are used and have been broke in already in many cases with just some new bearings and maybe new rings thrown in. No one has posted any significant bearing issues for engines that haven't spun a bearing and there is very little evidence of scratching on the crank journals. I've seen what grit does to engine bearings and it either embeds itself into the bearing and proceeds to scratch the hell out of the crank or it just scratches the hell out of the crank on it's way around. Also you can't expect grit that is pumped through the passages to really cycle through the oil more than once. Small amounts of the grit will be left in the heads and pan and the oil suction is unlikely to pull most of it up again. IF it passes the oil filter then it is small enough to pass through all the bearing tolerances and may not cause much wear if any. So I don't see this holding all that much weight.
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356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
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Me, with my very limited knoledge compared to you guys, was thinking the exact thing as warmonger. I can understand a failure on first startup where the grit and stuff might have been sitting there, but once it is in the oil shouldn't the oil filter catch it all? If not, whats the point of having an oil filter?
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Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
Me, with my very limited knoledge compared to you guys, was thinking the exact thing as warmonger. I can understand a failure on first startup where the grit and stuff might have been sitting there, but once it is in the oil shouldn't the oil filter catch it all? If not, whats the point of having an oil filter?
Nevermind, I got my (ours, warmonger?) answer here:
Originally posted by Terry Haines:
...need to clarify something here Re:location of the sand that does the damage.The sand is in the oilways that are AFTER the oil filter and before the bearings.Its been suggested that an oil filter check will give 'early warning'...not so...the sand is added on the pressure side out of the filter.....if it were on the 'in' side we wouldn't have an issue as the filter would trap it ...Re:in the pressure line from the pump to the filter inlet...Sorry guys but I wish it was there too!
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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Does Anyone Have any pics of the bearings that have failed...if so lets take look at these and compare the differences...Perhaps they will all show the same type of failure...We can then put a sticky on the thread for trouble shooting the different bearing failures and their characteristics....I believe the haynes manual (or is it Chiltons??) have these pics in their books... 
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