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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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OP
I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Very true Buckshot. I asked Terry if he would go through my 3L before I install it. I don't think he wants to work on any Duratecs any longer was the word I received. So someone tell me how this benefits him?
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454
Learned patience the hard way
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Learned patience the hard way
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454 |
I figured it out after Terry posted up the zircon comment on FCO. Here's the long and short of it and it truly explains a lot when you review the common failures of our motors.
Basically Zircon is part of the casting material they use on these motors and through some flaw in the design process is being left in trace amounts even after cleaning and machining. I'm guessing it's most likely lightly embedded in the surface of the aluminum and stuck in passageways that can't be cleaned by any normal process. Over time the material breaks loose and gets embedded in everything from bearings to lifters causing myriads of problems that on the surface all resemble oiling issues i.e. spun bearings, stuck lifters, etc.
I've personally seen this in a 3L head on my car. I pulled one of the oil feed plugs where the vortech gets it's feed on the head and found almost 1/2 teaspoon of sand pressed up against the drain plug. I was disheartened to see it but until now had dismissed it as a strange anomolly. In any case the sand circulating or lodging in different places would definitely explain a lot about why this is truly a hit or miss type problem.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
Buckshot77@msn.com
Misc 3L parts for sale
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
So you are saying all the Cosworth engines fail this same way then.
Any engine with the Cosworth casting process actually.
How many decades does that cover? At least 2 right...
This is opposed to regular engine castings which use silica instead of zircon right???
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454
Learned patience the hard way
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Learned patience the hard way
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454 |
No, I'm not saying it's a flaw in the cosworth process at all. I'm saying it's a flaw with either a particular set of molds or this particular engine design. If it were a flaw in the Cosworth process in general it wouldn't still be in use. I think this is a flaw in this particular engine family.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
Buckshot77@msn.com
Misc 3L parts for sale
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,676
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,676 |
ugh, if this was proveable, looks like Ford would be out of ALOT Of money for the number of engine failures that have resulted from fine-particulate build up in engine components. . .
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Terry was nice enough to respond to me by email. (Thanks) I solid gesture and his tone and details seemed spot on.
I believe you may be getting close Rick. I had another idea myself that would go right along with your line of thinking.
Maybe my previous statement could be turned around and that's why the Cleveland #1 plant spent $650 million on new molding equipment and such???
Either way it's not a nice thing to think about.
Glad my Duratec is running strong...
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,012
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,012 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT: Maybe my previous statement could be turned around and that's why the Cleveland #1 plant spent $650 million on new molding equipment and such???
what was the date that the new equipment was put online? was the method of casting previous to the "change-over" (lost foam) better? how many pre-98s suffer from the same spun bearing issue? did ford go a cheaper route in the post 98 duratec and in turn screw themselves and us?
Oo (xxx)oO
o xxxxxxxx o
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20
New CEG\'er
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New CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20 |
So is THIS now the "leading" theory to explain spun bearing in both 2.5 & 3.0 Duratecs....not crankwhip, not lack of oil drains in the heads, but whether or not the engine mold for your particular motor's run had too much free zircon sand??
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777 |
Originally posted by DanNx: "leading" theory to explain spun bearing in both 2.5 & 3.0 Duratecs....not crankwhip
It never has been crank whip. I was shouted down from HIGH heavens when I told terry he was wrong. I was working for 8 months with the SVT guys the Duratec design guys and 6 Sigma guys from deep within Ford.
Personally I give anything terry says a D+ grade right from the start. He has never given me any concrete info to support his claims. He has never been able to deny any of the problems my car had and the results that ths SVT/and other FoMoCo guys came up with.
I have my own feelings about duratecs, and most of their failures, I also have the word of one of the head designers. Its NOT crank whip, and at least in my own personal enigne its not "abrasive" buildup.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,887
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,887 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT: Maybe my previous statement could be turned around and that's why the Cleveland #1 plant spent $650 million on new molding equipment and such???
ding ding ding that sure sounds like a dead giveaway to me.
06 GMC Sierra 2500HD Dmax/ally
06 Pontiac G6 GT
05 CRF250R
FOR SALE 06 KX65 with riding gear $2700 obo
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