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Joined: Aug 2000
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even the republicans think this ad is trash, john mccain has been one of several to denounce the ad as "dishonest and dishonorable."
btw you should be researching how you can prove your claims that haliburton was "the most-qualified company in the world to rebuild Iraq". or are you now making false claims just as these swift boat whiners.
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by BP:
imo it's pretty hard to overlook the priviledged people who used their connections to go into a reserve role in order to avoid being drafted and sent to vietnam. on the same note there are many who were valiant in their service as reservists and i do not belittle their commitment one bit. to me there is some distinction between those who served because they felt compelled to and those who did it to avoid being sent to battle.
What do you KNOW of Bush's avoiding being sent to battle vs compelled to serve? I certainly do not know....anymore than I know if Kerry was really wounded of cut himself on a piece of paper for an early trip home....
However, a privileged person to the degree Bush was could have fully AVOIDED military service period. That he served at ALL in the guard was voluntary. His father was a fighter pilot, who was shot down in combat...this is not the kind of person who would want his son to run to Canada or cheat the draft.
Bush was trained as an F-104 fighter pilot, noted to be one of the hardest jets to fly..I knew a couple F 104 guys from my air contoller days. This is dangerous work, just the training...NOT for gutless punks looking for an "easy" way out. Bush's CO even commented that Bush volunteered for Nam flight duty but had not yet accrued the required number of flight hours in type aircraft. To suggest that Bush did not adequetly serve his country militarily is just flat wrong.
Kerry spent 4 months in Vietnam and should be commended for this. However, Kerry stirred the pot again with a pretty much 4 day long commercial (the DNC convention) complete with a friggin' Steven Spielberg movie that spent 10X more time on his 4 weeks in Vietnam that 20 years in the senate... He has brought this attack by other swift boat vets who knew him and what really happened upon himself. Kerry marketed himself as a combat experienced hero..let the chips fall where they may..
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by BP:
even the republicans think this ad is trash, john mccain has been one of several to denounce the ad as "dishonest and dishonorable."
The ad has nothing to do with Republicans. So they probably won't say anything about it, and rightfully so. George Bush will denounce this in the same way John Kerry denounced Fahrenheit 911.
...and since when is John McCain a Republican? 
Originally posted by BP:
btw you should be researching how you can prove your claims that haliburton was "the most-qualified company in the world to rebuild Iraq". or are you now making false claims just as these swift boat whiners.
Not false claims, just simple fact. If you want the documentary evidence, you can look for it yourself. Not that it would take long for me to do it, I just don't care that much.
Interesting how someone who disagrees with Kerry is a "whiner" in your opinion. I thought liberals were open to all thoughts and opinions.
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If even half of it is true, then it's pretty disturbing. I think people around Kerry have made more of his service than he has himself (DNC Convention notwithstanding), but he's certainly done nothing to dispell any misconceptions or myths. Getting Purple Hearts for splinters and bruises is odd in my opinion, though his last one seems to be of unqestionably legitimate circumstances: http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200405041626.aspJudge for youself. There seems to be enough inconsistency and discrepancies to make me really want to look much longer and harder at his service, though I find his voting record MUCH more interesting than his Vietnam tour. 3 Purple Heart's and you can request reassignment, though it was voluntary, I believe. He obviously didn't believe in the war that he was fighting, so maybe that's why he cut out early...
JaTo
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Missouri City, TX
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Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
What do you KNOW of Bush's avoiding being sent to battle vs compelled to serve? I certainly do not know...
then i suggest you do some research. even though he volunteered, how bush got into the texas national guard as quickly as he did is still a mystery. i'm sure having a congressman father and friends of the family in high places in the texan beauracracy didn't hurt. but i'm sure that to most people who don't know it's just a coincedence.
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
However, a privileged person to the degree Bush was could have fully AVOIDED military service period.
that would look pretty bad when your dad is a famed fighter pilot. i'm sure avoiding service all together was not an option.
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
Bush was trained as an F-104 fighter pilot, noted to be one of the hardest jets to fly..
hmm. i thought it was an f-102. a jet that apparently was being phased out of service (i think even recalled) by the time bush would have been eligible to go to veitnam.
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
This is dangerous work, just the training...NOT for gutless punks looking for an "easy" way out.
i agree. however i still hold the position that a pilot serving in vietnam is facing a much more dangerous job than a pilot stationed at home. keep in mind these people are attacking kerry's service...it's a lose situation in my book to begin comparing it to kerry's since he faced a tougher situation.
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
He has brought this attack by other swift boat vets who knew him and what really happened
i may be wrong but these people didn't even serve under his command or on any of his boats! how can they know what happened?
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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Originally posted by Davo:
...and since when is John McCain a Republican?
  Where have you been?
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana
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Originally posted by Davo:
The ad has nothing to do with Republicans.
really? even though it's financially backed by a contributor to the repub party?
Originally posted by Davo:
Not false claims, just simple fact.
how do you know it as a fact? i've looked and have seen no evidence that haliburton was indeed the only and best for the job. maybe you should back up your claims with proof rather than just pulling false bs out your a$$ and saying you 'don't care' about proof as a coverup for the stink it is.
Originally posted by Davo:
Interesting how someone who disagrees with Kerry is a "whiner" in your opinion. I thought liberals were open to all thoughts and opinions.
you should think outside the box. you can't put the same tag on every person. 
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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Originally posted by BP:
really? even though it's financially backed by a contributor to the repub party?
Yes, even though the ad is partially financed by someone who happens to also support the Republicans, this ad has nothing to do with Republicans.
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It's like I am a member of the CEG. If I do something automotive on my own (like street race) which is condemned by the CEG, my actions are my own, not of the CEG.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Originally posted by BP:
...i've looked and have seen no evidence that haliburton was indeed the only and best for the job...
Haliburton isn't the only conglomerate capable of providing a substantial amount of assistance in rebuilding Iraqi infrastructure, though it's easily in the top three in the US and would certainly be in the top 10 in the world...
You must remember that the US government puts contracts like this out for bid. The best qualified, lowest cost and most flexible win the business (furthermore, they like to award it to US-based businesses over foreign entities). These contracts aren't entered into lightly or merely given "cursory glances", either. Even some of the small ones I've done take as long a 8-12 months to hammer all the terms and conditions, all the while going through "umpteen" revisions...
I know a thing or two about government contracts, given that I deal with certain Federal entities and a few State one's in my line of work. I'm no guru on the topic, but I've lived through enough of them to know some of their workings.
Haliburton's ability to execute hasn't really been disputed by anyone on either side of the partisan debate, though their embarassing overcharges and some of their goofs in accounting have been.
Don't worry too much. The GAO is watching our tax dollars rather closely, especially on a politically charged issue like Iraq. They've caught Haliburton's goofs more than once; Kellogg, Brown & Root (a Haliburton subsidiary) is on a number of watch-lists on Capitol Hill and in the non-profit watchdog sector (rightfully so in some cases; other cases it seems there were genuine mistakes made in the charges).
They are far from perfect, but they are better-equipped at working with the Us government than any other private firm I can think of...
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
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