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i dont put it in neutral 1000 feet from a red light. if i'm in 4th then i just brake while in 4th. as i get close to the light still in 4th i put it in neutral and finish braking. even going really slow the car wont stall or buckle (in 5th i can see this happening). sometimes i'll brake while downshifting to 3rd and continue as i described. but no way am i downshifting thru every freakin gear at every stop for daily driving.
i dont know how to revmatch even though u guys say its easy.
i assume doubleclutching is hitting the clutch, pulling the gear out, releasing the clutch pedal, depressing it again then putting in the next gear.
i have done so clutchless shifting but cant do it upshifting. i can do it downshifting but at low speeds. pulling onto my street i can pull it out of 3rd clutchless then almost immediately slide it into 3rd. when i do it right, there's no grinding or bucking. other than that i can pull the car out of gear as i'm braking and the revs drop-i pull on the shifter slightly til i feel it pop out. but heel-toe or revmatching i cant really do. is there a breakdown or chart to show the rev each gear should be in for up or downshifting
though i kinda cheat when downshifting while speeding up cuz i cant revmatch. i blip the throttle a bit to raise the rpms then downshift to gas it like when passing a car (on a 2way street, not hwy)
Hugo AIM:omegazodiac
95 gl & 99 contour svt #1750/2760
my profile pics stuff for sale
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Originally posted by ODC:
Originally posted by 98SVTGUY:
Actually in our cars there is no need to double clutch. That is more for older cars back then with no synchros. I just rev-match down the gear to slow the car down or if you have a little more talent/skill you can always try heel&toeing or even clutchless shifting. Benefit of rev-matching saves the clutch if do it right versus just dropping it in to a lower gear.
Still saves on the syncro wear/tear. Plus double clutching and revmatching on a downshift give a smooth as butter downshift. No jerkiness.
Actually if you rev-match perfectly no jerkiness at all.
98svt wrecked
00svt sold
05 GTO m6 my new toy
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well once when i had no clutch. on my decieced 92 nissan 300zxtt i had to drive home right after it gave out. had to get the car rolling with the starter. gave it gas let off so the front end dropped snatched it out and into the next gear. all the way to like 4th. grinded a few times but nevertheless worked. i have heard of people while racing try this technique but it seems pointless when you have a clutch. i dont drive and 18 wheeler so i dont need to rev match. i hear thats what alot of big rig drivers do. i think my dad told me that once. i dunno. what did the five fingers say to the worthless thread.......................
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How does downshifting burn more fuel? Just because revs go up doesn't mean you're burning more gas -- there's load on the engine from the wheels that's making it rev, not combustion of fuel.
I downshift for every stop and through every gear. I still touch the brakes though because people are too stupid these days to realize that just because your brake lights aren't on doesn't mean you aren't slowing down.
Being in the right gear to quickly avoid a potential accident has saved my ass many more times than an emergency braking maneuver has.
Quote:
How many emergency manuevers does your average driver actaully hit the gas? Hmm, probably very few.
You're right -- probably very few times. But the average driver is also a total dumbass.
I've seen countless accidents that could have been easily avoided if people would have pressed the gas and moved out of the way rather than slamming on their brakes causing multi-vehicles pile-ups.
Just because people are stupid and slam on their brakes doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
Coasting in 4th to a stop might even be worse than neutral -- not only can you not put power on the ground but if you go to slam on the brakes and let out the clutch you're much likelier to bog and stall the engine than if you were in 2nd -- leaving you stranded in an accident zone with a dead engine that you need to restart, totally at the whim of the drivers bearing down on you, praying that they can stop in time because you can't move until you get your engine started and in gear.
And in Neutral not only can you not put power to the ground to move out of the way of anything (no matter what it is) but with no load you increase your stopping distance even if you do need to slam on your brakes.
There's good reason why it's illegal to have your car in Neutral while in motion.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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brilliant fickin brilliant i wish i was as cool as this dude
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Originally posted by tbirdjayc:
If you don't downshift, and overheat your brakes, you might be replacing your whole car, or worse  I don't think the right thing is to drive every trip like you are racing, but there has to be a happy medium. Not downshifting at all is foolish.
Not true.
The brakes are made for... Braking! 
Yes from high speeds engine braking helps a small bit with the overall braking procedure but at low speeds and rpm it does very little at all.
Also which would you rather wear out faster. The clutch or the brake pads.
I know which one costs a hell of a lot less! 
I normally only downshift from high speeds or highway exits.
For instance from a 65mph exit I rev match from 5th to 3rd or so and then leave it in that gear until the rpm level is down below 2000. I then put it in neutral.
I never downshift for normal stops at low speeds (i.e. any side road)
I normally leave it in whatever gear I was cruising in and put it into neutral when below 1500-2000rpm.
The brakes are for braking folks.
This does not cover aggressive or back roads driving either. Then rpm control of the engine is the most important factor and that's done by choosing the proper gear and planned braking.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Originally posted by sigma:
How does downshifting burn more fuel? Just because revs go up doesn't mean you're burning more gas -- there's load on the engine from the wheels that's making it rev, not combustion of fuel.
Huh ? Fuel is burnt accordingly to how many rpm. That's why you'll have worse gas mileage if you try to drive in too high a gear at too low a speed.
Anyway, re: double clutching, here's a good explanation:
Quote:
When you double clutch on the downshift you are revmatching, but that does not mean that revmatching is double clutching.
Revmatching
1. Clutch in
2. Blip Throttle
4. Downshift
3. Clutch out
This is the most common (n00b) way of revmatching on the downshift. Your synchros still have to accellerate the layshaft to the speed of the output shaft, hence synchro wear is no different than just waiting for RPMs to drop and then downshifting. Essentially you are accellerating the rotating speed of the engine so that when you engage the clutch they will be moving the same speed. It is slower than double clutching, but less advanced and will let you get used to blipping the throttle while braking. Done correctly this method eliminated brake bias due to engine braking and reduces clutch wear since you are at no time dragging it.
Double Clutch Revmatching
1. Clutch in
2. Shift to Neutral
3. Clutch out
4. Blip Throttle
5. Clutch in
6. Downshift
7. Clutch out
This method allows for a much faster downshift as you do not have to rely on the synchromeshes to accellerate the layshaft to the speed of the output shaft. The lever literally falls into place with a feather's touch as layshaft and output shaft are perfectly matched. Virtually no synchro or clutch wear, and your downshift will be nearly instantanious once you get used to dancing all over your pedals.
Read my earlier post for a better description of Double Clutching.
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Quote:
Huh ? Fuel is burnt accordingly to how many rpm.
Absolutely incorrect. While RPM can be a very rough estimate of consumption on an ATX, it means nothing on MTX.
When an Engine turns the transmission it uses gas. When the transmission turns the engine, there is no (actually very little) gas consumption. There is just enough to produce compression rather than combustion.
If I go 60 in 5th, I'm at 2500rpm. If I let off the gas, the fuel cuts off from the engine (largely), but I'm still going 2500rpm. I'm using the same amount of gas as I would be if I pressed in the clutch, sending the RPMs down to 750. The Tach means nothing for gas consumption, as I'm using the same gas at 750 with the engine decoupled from the drivetrain as I am at 2500 with the engine coupled to it.
If I downshift to 4th it'll go to 4000 -- I'm still not burning (much) fuel. The RPMs are higher, but that's just the transmission revving the engine, not the engine revving the transmission. I'm still burning roughly the same amount of gas I would be at 750rpm even though I'm at 4000.
You could downshift from 5th to 3rd, blow the [censored] out of the RPMs, and still not use much gas. Until you tried to actually put power to the wheels that is -- then you'd have to hit 6,000RPMs just to get somewhere -- then you would use more gas.
Downshifting doesn't use gas -- driving in the lower gear will use gas. But that's moot since we're talking about stopping your car, so you wouldn't be giving it any gas unless you needed to move in an emergency, in which case you're going to be glad you're in that lower gear.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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Originally posted by ODC:
Every DMV book states that it is illegal to coast in neutral for good reason.
Really? In Drivers Education (Which i just recently took, fun class too  ) You shift to neutral when coasting... like to a stop light. I remember this because we were told in Simulator to shift to neutral... I mean hey, I am not the Drivers Education instructor... Teacher also stated its a bit harder on the car, and it should only be used when going to a low speed that the car may not be able to handle (Like 15-20 Mph in 5th gear...) I cant find anything on the book for IL....
Former owner of a 1995 Ford Contour GL w/ 2.0L ATX
Proud owner of a 2005 Ford Taurus SE 3.0L V6 Vulcan 
--Looking for Commodore stuff (Drives, Units, Amiga, games, etc)If anyone has any of this laying around and wants it gone, lemme know --
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Originally posted by ODC:
That's another thing, if you're racing or need to slow down really quickly, you should brake + downshift at the shift points. The car will slow down much faster.
....ps. your stopping distance increases when you are not in gear.
Explain, please, exactly how downshifting increases the traction available at the tire contact patch, since the braking system used as it is designed to be used in a 'racing' situation as you describe is more than adequate to place the tires at the threshold of lockup and keep them there?
Does a lower gear cause little spoilers and flaps to pop out and grab the wind, like KITT?
B. Riley
Melbourne, FL
'01 Camry LE V6/5-spd
Was: '00 Black/Tan SVT Contour #560 - Sold 3/26/03
Before that: '95 Champ/Blue Contour GL V6 ATX
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