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i agree with them being overpriced. liek the s2000. for that kind of money it should have came with a v6 maybe honda should have just said screw the vtec and lets finally build somehtign with a turbo and lots of usable torque. oh yeah and civics only sound liek lawnmowers when they have a cheap exhaust. my friend has a 99 si and it has 4-1 headers with a full tanabe exhaust that came with a center resonator and the sound is actually deep. the 4-1 header sounds better than the 4-2-1 set of headers that he hadbefore. the worstthing about the car is the brakes they dotn do a think especially with the 18 inch rims on it. the torque is horrible the car pulls ok but i dont feel a thing its weird. he has a skunk 2 suspension on it and the car handles pretty good , the way my tour handles anythign feels good. my other friend he has a 91 accord dx base model and after puttign in 4-2-1- headers , cold air intake and a full catless exhaust it runs as good as the civic si i mentioned above. i remember one day my friend with the si messed with his adjustable timing gears and the accord beat him by like 2 or 3 car lengths . so after that race my friend with the 99 si baught a zex kit with a 75 shot. he also used the whole 10lb bottle that day and now he is throwing out grey smoke. i donht realy care much for the vtec i rather just have a bigger motor or one with turbo. vtec just makes power through the cams. you can always raise the compression and put a more aggressive cam on any engine. i was also wondering are the dohc vtec trannys geared up for more wheel torque compared to the non vtec versions of the engine?
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Oh... my... goodness. 
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First, to some people and you know who you are: Honda's what sucks? You don't mind Honda's what? Did you people graduate sixth grade? Carol H. Tapdancing Shelby in a riced out Civic, go back to f***ing grade school. There, is that an example of erudite prose or what? 
Anyhoo, I was a huge fan of Honda until recently; I don't hate them now, but Nissan has dethroned Honda as my favorite Japanese manufacturer. Five years (that's "years," not "year's") ago the Civic Si was the best car that could be had for $17.5K, bar none. Once the engine was broken in these cars (again, note the lack of an apostrophe) were capable of 0-60 runs in just 7.1 seconds. And, the Prelude utterly DOMINATED the mid-$20K range as far as I'm concerned.
By this time, though, you already had our SVT Contours on the market which were capable of the same acceleration (6.9 to 60) and handling in the same class as the Prelude. And over the last five years we've seen a renaissance of performance while Honda has mostly lagged, and the Civic has only become more and more overpriced for what you get. As a business model, this seems to make sense: People are willing to pay dearly for the reputation of reliability that comes with a Civic. My mom bought a four-door LX 5spd last year. The engine note is kind of thrashy; this is in VERY stark contrast to her previous car, a '90 Accord LX 5spd that would sing to you, urging you all the way to redline. Fifteen grand (before tax&title) gets you only 115 horsepower; if I were buying a car in this class, it would be a Hyundai Elantra GLS stripper with 140 horsepower, a manual tranny, tach and power everything (yep, standard) for maybe a little over thirteen grand out the door.
I wish Honda would become more performance oriented once again, but I'm not sure it makes good business sense for them to do so, any more than it would have made sense for Ford to make the Mustang faster than the Camaro when the Mustang was already kicking the Camaro's ass in sales. If it isn't broken (from a business standpoint), why fix it?
--T.J.
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by Fmr12B:
The S2000 for $32K out the door is an amazing bargain as the Honda whoops up on any car up to $45K in its price range including the Boxster. For a RWD, Convertible, 240HP, 6-spd its really is the performance bargain!
Umm, what have you been smoking? Get a $20k srt4 and be faster than a s2k and handle almost as good. Spend about $5k on the engine and suspension and be A LOT faster and handle better than a s2k and have money left over. An 03 cobra is also a very good deal as well. The s2000 is a good car just needs more engine, a 2L (now 2.2L) just isn't enough.
The SRT-4 will never be in the same Handling category as the S2000. The SRT-4 is still a straight line car COMPARED to the S2000. You need to stop preaching the SRT-4 to everyone it's getting old. if you wnat to talk good bargains get an EVO RS thats a good bargain.
Oh and my del sol has 180K on the original clutch. No chatter at all. CSVT has 59K and the clutch chatters away.
06 GMC Sierra 2500HD Dmax/ally
06 Pontiac G6 GT
05 CRF250R
FOR SALE 06 KX65 with riding gear $2700 obo
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What about Integras. For some reason the rice factor doesn't seem to run as rampant through the Integras as it does with the Civics.
Also, Non-Vtec gearing in Honda is generally longer than VTEC Gearing. These motors are usually a little torquier so they aren't bothered as much by the long gearing.
Also, Vtec engines don't just make their power from "a cam." They make it with multiple cam lobes. One for low and one for high. That's why the torque for a 4 cylinder is still decent and they can get that kick up top.
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by Fmr12B:
The S2000 for $32K out the door is an amazing bargain as the Honda whoops up on any car up to $45K in its price range including the Boxster. For a RWD, Convertible, 240HP, 6-spd its really is the performance bargain!
Umm, what have you been smoking? Get a $20k srt4 and be faster than a s2k and handle almost as good. Spend about $5k on the engine and suspension and be A LOT faster and handle better than a s2k and have money left over. An 03 cobra is also a very good deal as well. The s2000 is a good car just needs more engine, a 2L (now 2.2L) just isn't enough.
Mmmmmmmmmk.
He's been smoking the "RWD 2-seat sports car that handles like a go-cart and revs like an F1 racer" weed.
And, uh, fit and finish? Let's not even go there.
Like he said, the car competes with the Boxster and other cars in the 45k range. The SRT-4, while impressive in some regards, simply does not and was never intended to.
Last edited by RogerB; 07/29/04 02:04 PM.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Originally posted by TJSwoboda:
First, to some people and you know who you are: Honda's what sucks? You don't mind Honda's what? Did you people graduate sixth grade? Carol H. Tapdancing Shelby in a riced out Civic, go back to f***ing grade school. There, is that an example of erudite prose or what?
Anyhoo, I was a huge fan of Honda until recently; I don't hate them now, but Nissan has dethroned Honda as my favorite Japanese manufacturer. Five years (that's "years," not "year's") ago the Civic Si was the best car that could be had for $17.5K, bar none. Once the engine was broken in these cars (again, note the lack of an apostrophe) were capable of 0-60 runs in just 7.1 seconds. And, the Prelude utterly DOMINATED the mid-$20K range as far as I'm concerned.
By this time, though, you already had our SVT Contours on the market which were capable of the same acceleration (6.9 to 60) and handling in the same class as the Prelude. And over the last five years we've seen a renaissance of performance while Honda has mostly lagged, and the Civic has only become more and more overpriced for what you get. As a business model, this seems to make sense: People are willing to pay dearly for the reputation of reliability that comes with a Civic. My mom bought a four-door LX 5spd last year. The engine note is kind of thrashy; this is in VERY stark contrast to her previous car, a '90 Accord LX 5spd that would sing to you, urging you all the way to redline. Fifteen grand (before tax&title) gets you only 115 horsepower; if I were buying a car in this class, it would be a Hyundai Elantra GLS stripper with 140 horsepower, a manual tranny, tach and power everything (yep, standard) for maybe a little over thirteen grand out the door.
I wish Honda would become more performance oriented once again, but I'm not sure it makes good business sense for them to do so, any more than it would have made sense for Ford to make the Mustang faster than the Camaro when the Mustang was already kicking the Camaro's ass in sales. If it isn't broken (from a business standpoint), why fix it?
--T.J.
Very well put. I loved Honda in the late 80's and early 90's, but they have diverged from my vision. Bigger, heavier, etc. I love Nissan, though. They are kicking some serious butt, IMO, and if my dollar were going out for a new car today, I'd seriously consider a Nissan/Infinity (esp. the G35  )
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Originally posted by RogerB:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Umm, what have you been smoking? Get a $20k srt4 and be faster than a s2k and handle almost as good. Spend about $5k on the engine and suspension and be A LOT faster and handle better than a s2k and have money left over. An 03 cobra is also a very good deal as well. The s2000 is a good car just needs more engine, a 2L (now 2.2L) just isn't enough.
Mmmmmmmmmk.
He's been smoking the "RWD 2-seat sports car that handles like a go-cart and revs like an F1 racer" weed.
And, uh, fit and finish? Let's not even go there.
Like he said, the car competes with the Boxster and other cars in the 45k range. The SRT-4, while impressive in some regards, simply does not and was never intended to.
Exactly... not everyone is caught up in the "I have to be faster than everyone!" BS... The MSRP on my Jetta was more than I would've paid for an SRT-4. Why didn't I get the SRT-4?? Because I wanted a car with solid fit and finish... something that wouldn't be screaming at me as I was trying to cruise down the interstate, and something with POWER REAR WINDOWS for chrissakes.
I'd take an S2000 over an SRT-4 ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, hands down, for the reasons mentioned above... convt., looks, handling, revvability, quality, finish, and general appeal.
Diesel owns you
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