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Joined: Sep 2000
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Originally posted by SteedaSVT:
Im not cool enough to be in this design  Bastard! 
You like all that mainstream crap, you aren't invited. 
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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Posts: 7,392
Addicted CEG\'er
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Addicted CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,392 |
Originally posted by SteedaSVT:
Im not cool enough to be in this design Bastard!
if it was a matter of being cool, dave couldn't help either. 
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone?
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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 50 |
Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
-I have never insinuated in any of my posts that a lesser brand of any sort would compromise the system - although it is a true point.
no it's not. there's no proof. it's a bunch of crap.
if your system is setup properly in the first place, theres no need for any special cabling. and since yours is obviously so superior, you don't need it as well.
++Are you telling me that unshielded Lightning Audio cable is as good as Streetwires ZN5.0's??? I don't think so. Part of properly setting up a system, and I think everyone will agree is having the proper wire for your requirements.
Whether it's the kid who just wants some bass or someone like me who wants it all and doesn't really care if it costs twice as much.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
-I rest my case on this one. Both yourself and Steeda responding about the Monster Cable is beyond me... If it is an inside joke, go ahead, laugh it up. But from my perspective it was a childish response to a statement that was never made.
it wasn't that you made the statement, you clearly inferred it, however. and most ceg audio forum members have little tolerance for perpetuating audio myths. if you take offense to that, i'm sorry.
++Dude, was it "clear" or "inferred" make up your mind as they are opposite in meaning in this context. Kinda like "Oxy-moron". I can certainly agree that the audio forum members have little tollerance for perpetuating myth... So, what myth is it that I am prepetuating...???
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
- Now I'm supposed "quell the elitism you hinted at earlier". What is this crap?! I never hinted to anything - and I'm not about to make everyone feel equal by toning down the "elitism". This is life guys... This isn't elementary school soccer where everyone goes home a winner with ribbons and no hurt feelings. What?, am I supposed to make it "fair" for everone?
but we're expected to do it for you? you truly are the king of double standards.
++I never asked anyone to do anything. Please...
"You are truly the king of double standards" Get over yourself MX. Unless you have something specific to say reguarding the post at hand - just be quiet and observe.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
This entire site has been irrelevant for years, so yours or anyone elses presence here couldn't possibly matter any less
-Man that is sad. You are a moderator of this forum and you bash it yourself! I don't need to say anything else on that.
instead of running your mouth about daves "bashing" the forum, maybe you should THINK about his statement. the contour has not been in production since 2000. thus, this site is dedicated to a deceased platform. hence the irrlevance.
++OMG you're right!!! The contour has been dead since 2000. But we're talking about car audio, and since we're still talking about it I doubt that it is dead. Hell, I know that you have a good grasp of car audio so... hardly dead or irrelevant.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
"BTW, I would be willing to bet I could equal that SQ for 50% of the cost, maybe even exceed the performance. Do you mind saying how much you spent since prices can vary so substantially online and locally?"
-I paid retail.
Jack
how about this, since you're so intent on everyone listening to your system. you tally up how much you've spent on your system. dave and i will design and build one for appx. half the price, and we will enter both cars in a sanctioned sq event. i'd say a $3,000.00 bet to who scores higher in the sq points would make it interesting. what do you say?
++I don't care if you listen to it or not. And who cares about the money? This money issue has been harped on enough already. Did I ever say that money was an issue? Did I ever say that you couldn't build a good system for less money? About the only person who seems to be caring about the money is MX and dnewma04. Do you guys need some money or something?? Are you broke? I'd be glad to help out a fellow CEG'r if they could prove to me that they could pay it back.
++I've spent around $4,500 retail including tax and labor. I'd say that the money would definitley make it interesting but unneccessary. I don't need to take your money(by the sounds of it.. you need it more than I do). How about just bragging rights... would that work for you? I guess all there would be is a couple stipulations. You build your system but you can't use any of the equipment that I use. So, No Boston Acoustics, JLAudio, Eclipse, Dynomat and let's not forget MONSTER CABLE. Don't forget... you're gonna build it for half the cost of mine. Don't forget to pay yourselves(master installers) for your time as well. Let's see 10 hours at $50 and hour - a modest fee for the obvious audio gueniuses that you two are. And tax on the equipment(retail cost here guys) none of this deep employee discount stuff. So I figure you have about $2,000 to spend.
denewma04
"Jack, let me make it clear that I am not bashing your system but I can understand your defensiveness. Adding a "In my experience" or "In my opinion" would help the presentation of information. The 8443 is a fine HU and if you "
++Thank you for not bashing my system. If you look on the top of page 5 in my original post you will see that I did use In My Opinion(IMO).
That's it for tonight guys... Though the "fencing" is stimulating I need to get some sleep. So farewell untill tomorrow for Round 3!
Jack
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,092
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,092 |
Car Audio Myth - Certain brands of wiring will "sound" better than others.
Copper is copper is copper. Anybody that pays more for Brand X (which is loved in the audiofool circles) is wasting their money on Company X's advertising budget.
Disclaimer: This is of course assuming equal gauges, lengths, etc...
1999 Ford Contour SVT #900/2760 (SOLD)
2005 Mazda 6s
2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
1998 Ford Ranger 4x4
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,392
Addicted CEG\'er
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Addicted CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,392 |
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
++Are you telling me that unshielded Lightning Audio cable is as good as Streetwires ZN5.0's??? I don't think so. Part of properly setting up a system, and I think everyone will agree is having the proper wire for your requirements.
Whether it's the kid who just wants some bass or someone like me who wants it all and doesn't really care if it costs twice as much.
sheilding is ONLY neccessary if there is noise inherent in the system design. it's simple. the only thing that needs to be proper is the type and size. otherwise, trying to eliminate noise by purchasing expensive wire is akin to putting band-aids over herpes sores. it may seem to help mask the problem, but it's not actually doing anything to cure it.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
++Dude, was it "clear" or "inferred" make up your mind as they are opposite in meaning in this context. Kinda like "Oxy-moron". I can certainly agree that the audio forum members have little tollerance for perpetuating myth... So, what myth is it that I am prepetuating...???
your lack of a firm grasp on the usage of the english language doesn't suprise me. the two words are not opposite.
you are clearly inferring (insinuating)that more expensive cables help your system sound better. which is one of the biggest myths in audio, especially car audio. if it's not a myth, prove it. show us some evidence.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
++I never asked anyone to do anything. Please...
"You are truly the king of double standards" Get over yourself MX. Unless you have something specific to say reguarding the post at hand - just be quiet and observe.
i didn't say you asked for anything sparky. your whining about it speaks for itself. and i have no need to get over myself. i'm not the one on here telling everyone his stuff is the best, am i? as for specifics.... your opinions regarding wiring are simply a product of clever marketing and a litany of mis-information that has been perpetuated by know-nothings who have only hearsay to back up their positions.
is that specific enough for you?
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
++I don't care if you listen to it or not.
thats funny, you mentioned that we should come up and listen to it twice in the last two pages.... i think perhaps you do, in fact, care.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
And who cares about the money? This money issue has been harped on enough already. Did I ever say that money was an issue? Did I ever say that you couldn't build a good system for less money?
i could care less how much you've spent on your system. there are more than a few of us here who have spent exceptional amounts of money in the pursuit of excellence in the arena of automotive audio reproduction. but it's our hobby, and not an area of bragging rights or one-upmanship.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
Did I ever say that you couldn't build a good system for less money?
actually, you said:
"I invite you to come over and listen for yourself. Are there good sounding alternatives for less money - yes. Do they sound this good - not a chance in hell.
and that would be our point of contention. because i think there is a pretty good chance, right here in good old michigan, that it would sound better.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
About the only person who seems to be caring about the money is MX and dnewma04. Do you guys need some money or something?? Are you broke? I'd be glad to help out a fellow CEG'r if they could prove to me that they could pay it back.
it's not about the money, it's about proving you wrong. but i'm not going to spend time and money to do so without getting paid (and believe me, we would get paid) in the end. otherwise, i'm not going to spend the money to just shut up another keyboard commando.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
I guess all there would be is a couple stipulations. You build your system but you can't use any of the equipment that I use. So, No Boston Acoustics
crap! no harsh tweeters? how will we win???
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
JLAudio
nice but exceptionally overpriced.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
Eclipse
see above
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
Dynomat
see above
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
and let's not forget MONSTER CABLE.
i'll use wire from the hardware store. how about that?
Don't forget... you're gonna build it for half the cost of mine. Don't forget to pay yourselves(master installers) for your time as well. Let's see 10 hours at $50 and hour - a modest fee for the obvious audio gueniuses that you two are. And tax on the equipment(retail cost here guys) none of this deep employee discount stuff. So I figure you have about $2,000 to spend.
i won't be paying myself because i'm not an installer, nor is dave. and neither of us get any sort of employee discount. but that doesn't mean we are going to pay retail either. just because you're a sucker doesn't mean everyone else has to be as well.
since you won't do this for money (as you have nothing to lose if you don't), this is all just conjecture.
again, as dave stated, nobody is bashing your system. just contending a few of your points is all. 
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
Whether it's the kid who just wants some bass or someone like me who wants it all and doesn't really care if it costs twice as much.
i guess thats where the difference lies. perhaps you just feel better about your system design if you spend extra money on cabling. the rest of us simply know better.
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone?
.....______
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.\_/...............\_/
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 297
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 297 |
Holy crap... these posts keep getting longer and longer....
My setup....
- Stok bose system... sounds awesome! (compared to other stock systems I have heard)
Still workin on getting my system in the damn camaro, no space for anything fancy.
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Joined: May 2004
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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 50 |
Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
++Are you telling me that unshielded Lightning Audio cable is as good as Streetwires ZN5.0's??? I don't think so. Part of properly setting up a system, and I think everyone will agree is having the proper wire for your requirements.
Whether it's the kid who just wants some bass or someone like me who wants it all and doesn't really care if it costs twice as much.
sheilding is ONLY neccessary if there is noise inherent in the system design. it's simple. the only thing that needs to be proper is the type and size. otherwise, trying to eliminate noise by purchasing expensive wire is akin to putting band-aids over herpes sores. it may seem to help mask the problem, but it's not actually doing anything to cure it.
--Answer the question. You posed it. I never said my car didn't have the possibilty to have problems but that I took steps to avoid them at a later time. And dude!, whatever it is that you do with your herpes should be left off the boards.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
++Dude, was it "clear" or "inferred" make up your mind as they are opposite in meaning in this context. Kinda like "Oxy-moron". I can certainly agree that the audio forum members have little tollerance for perpetuating myth... So, what myth is it that I am prepetuating...???
your lack of a firm grasp on the usage of the english language doesn't suprise me. the two words are not opposite.
you are clearly inferring (insinuating)that more expensive cables help your system sound better. which is one of the biggest myths in audio, especially car audio. if it's not a myth, prove it. show us some evidence.
--There you go again. clear=without a doubt, inferring=to conclude by reasoning(which you can't do). FOR THE FINAL TIME. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT MONSTER CABLE WAS THE BEST OUT THERE!!! NOR DID I "INFER" THAT IT GIVES MY SYSTEM SOME SORT OF SUPERIORITY. If you chose to continue along this line of crap about what wire whoever uses please be prepared to talk to yourself.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
++I never asked anyone to do anything. Please...
"You are truly the king of double standards" Get over yourself MX. Unless you have something specific to say reguarding the post at hand - just be quiet and observe.
i didn't say you asked for anything sparky. your whining about it speaks for itself. and i have no need to get over myself. i'm not the one on here telling everyone his stuff is the best, am i? as for specifics.... your opinions regarding wiring are simply a product of clever marketing and a litany of mis-information that has been perpetuated by know-nothings who have only hearsay to back up their positions.
is that specific enough for you?
Are you drunk? Here you go again on wiring. Who cares?
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
++I don't care if you listen to it or not.
thats funny, you mentioned that we should come up and listen to it twice in the last two pages.... i think perhaps you do, in fact, care.
--No, "I invite you to come over and listen for yourself. Are there good sounding alternatives for less money - yes. Do they sound this good - not a chance in hell" This is for your own edification(look this up, you'll need to).
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
And who cares about the money? This money issue has been harped on enough already. Did I ever say that money was an issue? Did I ever say that you couldn't build a good system for less money?
i could care less how much you've spent on your system. there are more than a few of us here who have spent exceptional amounts of money in the pursuit of excellence in the arena of automotive audio reproduction. but it's our hobby, and not an area of bragging rights or one-upmanship.
-- The point of how much I spent was to form a cap as to which you could spend. That is if you are still up to your challenge.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
Did I ever say that you couldn't build a good system for less money?
actually, you said:
"I invite you to come over and listen for yourself. Are there good sounding alternatives for less money - yes. Do they sound this good - not a chance in hell.
and that would be our point of contention. because i think there is a pretty good chance, right here in good old michigan, that it would sound better.
-- I doubt it. I've been to plenty of competitions in the Northeast and you can't get better sound without spending more money. I ask everyone of the competitors how much they spent to get it the way they like it and it has ALWAYS been more than I have spent. Besides what do you know about how my system sounds... you won't even get off your butt to find out unless I wave some cash infront of you.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
About the only person who seems to be caring about the money is MX and dnewma04. Do you guys need some money or something?? Are you broke? I'd be glad to help out a fellow CEG'r if they could prove to me that they could pay it back.
it's not about the money, it's about proving you wrong. but i'm not going to spend time and money to do so without getting paid (and believe me, we would get paid) in the end. otherwise, i'm not going to spend the money to just shut up another keyboard commando.
--Yada Yada, so says you. It's about proving me wrong... I thought it was your hobby?? "another keyboard commando" you come up with that one yourself? How many of these people(keyboard commandos) come on these boards all gunning for you? Face it. You wouldn't get paid - not because I don't have the cash but because you don't have the balls to come over here and get the whipping that's owed to you. I've invited you twice now. Now I'm calling you out. Put up or shut up or else you're the "keyboard commando".
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
I guess all there would be is a couple stipulations. You build your system but you can't use any of the equipment that I use. So, No Boston Acoustics
crap! no harsh tweeters? how will we win???
--What, you gonna use Focal? The Z6's are the only set to beat Focals.
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
JLAudio
nice but exceptionally overpriced.
--I agree!
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
Eclipse
--As above
see above
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
Dynomat
see above
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
and let's not forget MONSTER CABLE.
i'll use wire from the hardware store. how about that?
--Funny that's how Monster started too... Hum, maybee you're onto something.
Don't forget... you're gonna build it for half the cost of mine. Don't forget to pay yourselves(master installers) for your time as well. Let's see 10 hours at $50 and hour - a modest fee for the obvious audio gueniuses that you two are. And tax on the equipment(retail cost here guys) none of this deep employee discount stuff. So I figure you have about $2,000 to spend.
i won't be paying myself(BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE CASH) because i'm not an installer, nor is dave. and neither of us get any sort of employee discount. but that doesn't mean we are going to pay retail either. just because you're a sucker(THIS SUCKER HAS THE CASH) doesn't mean everyone else has to be as well.
since you won't do this for money (as you have nothing to lose if you don't), this is all just conjecture.
again, as dave stated, nobody is bashing your system. just contending a few of your points is all.
--You have absolutely no points to contest. Every point you have made I have answered with you refusing to answer the 1st question. You're a waste of time and are now wasting my time. I'll state again;
Face it. You wouldn't get paid - not because I don't have the cash but because you don't have the balls to come over here and get the whipping that's owed to you. I've invited you twice now. Now I'm calling you out. Put up or shut up or else you're the "keyboard commando".
Originally posted by jaxsvt:
Whether it's the kid who just wants some bass or someone like me who wants it all and doesn't really care if it costs twice as much.
i guess thats where the difference lies. perhaps you just feel better about your system design if you spend extra money on cabling. the rest of us simply know better.
Igronance is bliss - you must be orgasmic. Besides, it can be your little secret.
I'm done with you.
Jack
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Anyway...this has gotten totally off track by everyone involved. Debating the context of words used in the post is getting a little ridiculous(i doubt anyone will need to look that up). The name of the forum clearly infers that it should be car audio related. It was fun while it lasted, but get back on topic.
Jack, you have a nice system. There is a chance in hell that lower cost systems can sound better. There is also a chance that more expensive system can sound better. You can spend 1699 on a set of BA components if you like, I can spend 5.89 on a Goldwood midbass. If I prefer the Goldwood, it is better than BA. If you prefer the BA, it is better than the goldwood. How's that?
My contour included:
Sony CDX-C910: Decent HU, good features, easy to use layout, sounded the same as every other HU using S/PDIF output.
Sony XDP-210EQ: Decent EQ with some minor time alignment features including 10 EQ presets, of which I used 2, one for flat response and one with a more realistic first order rise in response under 150 hz.
McIntosh MC440M: Great build quality, attractive looks, and best customer service in the industry in my experience made the McIntosh worth the price tag. Does it sound different than an amp half it's cost? Nope, it doesn't add spaciousness, or make imaging better or even make things sound crisper than anything from US Acoustics to Zapco.
MB Quart 6.5" components: Thought they were great at the time. Learned quite a bit since about value and wouldn't choose them again.
Adire Audio Shivas: 5-6 years after their introduction, they are still one of the best values on the market. Sounds good, plays comfortably down as low as needed at the SPL I am looking for. I could have spent quite a bit more money with worse results.
Streetwires ZN5.0: Sadly, I bought into the marketing and paid 150.00 for 3 18" (yes, inch) lengths to run from the processor to the amp. Later swapped out for rat shack red/white plastic RCAs with no difference in SQ.
Streetwires power/speaker wire: Again, poor decision by an ignorant consumer. Worked just fine but was a complete waste of money that could have been invested in making my car sound better.
Current system (under development):
Maybe a DIY head unit, but I haven't decided. S/PDIF output is a high priority which will likely lead me into a CarPC.
Amps: Probably reuse the McIntosh MC440M to run the front stage. Good quality 600-1000w amp for the subwoofers, processing features not important. Any competent amp will do.
Processor: 12V conversion on a couple of pro-fi pieces most likely by behringer. I hope to have a limiter/gate implemented in the system that would seamlessly turn the subs on at a volume level where the front stage starts to struggle.
Front stage: Hi-Vi D-10 10" woofer handling bass/midbass duties until the subs kick in. Creative sounds 4" full range** unit mfg by Adire Audio will handle the critical midrange freq where a majority of the imaging critical freq are. Tweeters are undecided...
Subs: Possibly a single Lambda PB15 in an IB. More likely, 4 10" subs also used in an IB. Model undetermined. Preferably, something with an advanced motor design.
Wires: Knukonceptz. Nice looking, very affordable, high build quality interconnects. Power and speaker wire will probably be Knu to match. Plus, heat shrinking coat hangers never turns out that good looking.
**i believe it had less then 50% of the distortion levels that the previous low distortion champ had when measured.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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Posts: 8,281
Captain Impound Boy
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Captain Impound Boy
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,281 |
Myself and SVTmike where talking about either building a Van or putting a HUge system in the Merkur, last night. I would rather get a van but we shall see. Something like 4 stroker 15's with 8Krms in the Merkur would be amazing! But would take up alot of room. Hmm decisions.
Ohh and to JAXSVT Im a installer(only first class nothing special) and ill pay myself for my time. THe whole 8 dollars/HU and $20/amp. Installers either make money off of fiberglassing or Alarms. I make about $90 dollars off of remote starter/alarm with a bypass. So to pay myself wouldn't be that much.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,379
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,379 |
Originally posted by SteedaSVT:
Something like 4 stroker 15's with 8Krms in the Merkur would be amazing! But would take up alot of room. Hmm decisions.
Lay off the Strokers already!!!
~~~~~~Mike~~~~~~
Black 2006 VW Rabbit
Silver 2000 Contour SVT - SOLD
~~~~ The Car~~~~~
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