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OK, I believe I've been thinking. A dangerous pastime, I know.
I'm currently running a big fat ITG foam open-air filter under that hot-house hood, and I'm sick of the hot air. I want cold air, dangit!
I've been visiting the "Bobistheoilguy" forums, where pretty much everybody bashes any air filter media besides paper because they let too much dirt in the engine. I've heard of guys taking off their K&N's and finding visible dirt in the MAF, so the naysayers are believable, despite what I used to think about "deep media" and its superior filtration. The Chicken Littles also quote oil analysis results to back up their claims, and a lot of guys are dumping their K&N's and foam deals for good quality OEM or Purolator, Wix, etc paper.
I also look at my intake system, and I just can't see that the filter is that much of a restriction. I mean, is the engine really not getting enough air at WOT? Look at that throttle body on my stock, 96 SE.
What about panel filter vs SVT "cone?" The SVT cone paper filter offers an additional 8% of filter area over the non-SVT panel, but somebody said it offers 30% better flow (hard to believe--maybe that's the whole induction system?) The SVT filter is the same one used on mid 90's V-8 Mustang Cobras. Are you going to tell me that an engine half the size is starved for air--by the filter?
Anyway, what I'm coming to is that the stock system is pretty darn good. I want my engine to get the best protection with good performance. I want to stay legal for SCCA Solo II STS competition, so I can't change or alter the TB, or hog out any holes for a true aftermarket CAI, but I can install an SVT airbox with a clean paper air filter, and I can either use a flexible hose to the fender area to draw cool air, or I can install the SVT fender adapter. Either way, I think the flow will be 1) superior to stock and 2) cooler and therefore superior to my present system, or any pseudo-sealed "cold air" box I could fabricate on the cheap.
That's my 2 cents. Any thoughtful commentary is welcome.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Veteran CEG\'er
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I've been pondering several things too. One of them is to look at silicone hose couplers (see here: http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gecat/hoses.htm ) and see what I can fit through the 3" hole in my fender and then snake down to a filter. Naturally, I can't get to that without screwing around with the fender well some weekend. I've also looked at CAIs for other cars that have multiple bends, such as for the Celica GT-S that put the filter in a similar place that putting one in front of the tranny under the battery would do on our cars. The problem that I believe that people experience with dynoing CAIs is that you're just not moving enough air with that big fan that approximates what the car is actually getting when driving. And there's the rub.
Whirling dervish of FFOG.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 460
CEG\'er
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Originally posted by weargle:
I've been pondering several things too. One of them is to look at silicone hose couplers (see here: http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gecat/hoses.htm ) and see what I can fit through the 3" hole in my fender and then snake down to a filter. Naturally, I can't get to that without screwing around with the fender well some weekend. I've also looked at CAIs for other cars that have multiple bends, such as for the Celica GT-S that put the filter in a similar place that putting one in front of the tranny under the battery would do on our cars.
The problem that I believe that people experience with dynoing CAIs is that you're just not moving enough air with that big fan that approximates what the car is actually getting when driving. And there's the rub.
yup im going this route too.. cept im going to use 3 inch mandrel bent stainless steel i think..
Lexus ES300
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Although he has a zetec, Sleeper Z is using a custom made intake using some type of heat shielding wrapping and a modified stock air box.
According to him it nets very good results
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Hard-core CEG'er
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OP
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Originally posted by weargle:
I've been pondering several things too. One of them is to look at silicone hose couplers (see here: http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gecat/hoses.htm ) and see what I can fit through the 3" hole in my fender and then snake down to a filter. Naturally, I can't get to that without screwing around with the fender well some weekend. I've also looked at CAIs for other cars that have multiple bends, such as for the Celica GT-S that put the filter in a similar place that putting one in front of the tranny under the battery would do on our cars.
The problem that I believe that people experience with dynoing CAIs is that you're just not moving enough air with that big fan that approximates what the car is actually getting when driving. And there's the rub.
Silicone is expensive, but I've pondered this, too.
Still, I don't see why I should go through the trouble to mount a filter down there where it's a PITA to get to. As long as I'm drawing cool air into the system from outside the engine bay, I don't see the potential for gain that's worth the extra effort of the "hidden" filter.
I may remove the intake resonator and run 3" hose of some kind from the end of the stock SVT airbox into the fender well. I'm thinking that will be my best bet.
As for testing, I think this is one area where a GTech might be superior to a dyno. People with open filters see gains on the dyno with the hood open, but this isn't realistic on the street, or even in the low-speed, high heat environment of an autocross.
My ambitious plan at the moment is to do some actual testing with my GTech, starting with my current setup, then with my stock panel box and dirty paper filter, then with a clean paper filter, and finally with the SVT airbox and paper. (I'm not buying K&N's just for testing, sorry.) Then back to current setup to validate the runs. (This crap is time consuming.) Still deciding what to test as far as the resonator is concerned.
My hypothesis, as stated above, is that the SVT airbox and paper filter, which was originally designed for a 240hp 5.0L V-8, will be more than adequate for my little 2.5L, 170 hp motor.
As for whether foam or cotton gauze can protect my engine as well as paper--Well, I used to think foam was best in this area, and K&N a close second, but a lot of people disagree with that. I'm also not sure that I have the time or money for it, but oil analysis is the way to go. Still, it's very hard to control other factors on a daily driver, so it's hard to pin a contaminant reading on an air filter, alone.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 10
New CEG\'er
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New CEG\'er
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Great thread - I've just been doing similar postulating for my SVT. I was considering a BAT intake - this is an open filter which has a second "inverted cone" in the end. It is run in place of the air box. This increases the flow - but it's all hot air ! You can add a "cold air" flow to the inner part of the filter, but unless the end of the intake is set up for a ram effect ( which wouldn't actually force air into the engine as it would instead reverse flow the other part of the filter )it won't do much as the air will take the easier route from the engine bay. My conclusion is as you stated - that the open filter kit might help on a dyno, but in real use it might even be a loss. ( OK so the intake noise would be cool but that's not my goal. ). I have to say - like most other stuff on the SVT - the engineers thought it through and gave us a good solution already - the cone filter is big ( off a V8 as you say ) -and it gets a nice flow of cool air from the inlet tube. So unless you are going to build a real "cold air" system with the filter up front -you're best off not doing anything. I will put in a K&N - I run them on my race car and they work great - but only if you keep them cleaned and oiled. They have to be sticky to work. I have seen the SVT air box up for sale occasionally - I'd suggest you SE folks pick one up.
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