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Originally posted by 24vHO:
As far as his new "preemption" policy, if you think that will make us more secure you are seriously deluded. The only way a country can now protect themselves against a country such as ours with such an overwhelming military is to develop nuclear capabilities. I'm certainly not going to feel more secure with every two-bit dictator having nuclear weapons at their disposal.
Are you seriously saying that we should only strike when we are hit first, that is an insane policy. First of all that policy is inviting our destruction as any backwater country inthe world can take shots at us and we won't do anything until after we are attacked. If someone came up to you and told you that i was going to come up to you and punch you in the face would you not do anything about it, from the way you act you would wait until i kicked your a$$ then try to get permission from an outside body ( UN ) to do something about it.
1996 Zetec MTX
NO Mods it's only a matter of money now though.
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Originally posted by 24vHO:
I can't believe anyone would praise or even defend Busch's decisions up to this point. I mean so far he has shown our intelligence community as being totally innefectual. Can you tell me one thing they got right about Saddam's capabilities or the feelings of the people in Iraq? It's going to be very difficult to do anything militarily for a long time when no one believes our intelligence gathering. I'd rather believe that this administration cooked the books to warrant going to war than to believe our information gathering abilities are this weak.
I've wasted too many hours of my time going over countless points why we NEEDED and DID go into Iraq. I'll not waste too much more trying to show short-sighted individuals where they are TOTALLY ignoring the disappearance of TONS of chemical weapons and subsequent lack of accounting and continued cover-up by the Iraqi government. It's an UNDISPUTABLE fact. Where are these weapons? We don't have a damn clue. Did they exist? YES. Do they still exist? Probably, unless they were destroyed by Iraqis before the war began, moved or hidden...
Originally posted by 24vHO:
As far as his new "preemption" policy, if you think that will make us more secure you are seriously deluded. The only way a country can now protect themselves against a country such as ours with such an overwhelming military is to develop nuclear capabilities. I'm certainly not going to feel more secure with every two-bit dictator having nuclear weapons at their disposal.
You're kidding me. You're actually trying to tell me that "two-bit" dictators weren't ACTIVELY pursuing nuclear weapons programs before Bush came into office!? Brush up on your modern history, friend. 3rd-world contries have been trying to secure this type of weaponry for the past 15-20 years and it WASN'T because of the US.
It was because of Israel obtaining (OK, I'll play the game, rumoured to have) these types of weapons. With Israel a nuclear power decades before most Arab countries could even begin to think about starting a program, this totally killed any military or political parity that could exist between them. If you want to point fingers, point them in the right direction...
Israel knocked out an Iraqi nuclear reactor facility back in the early '80s for the SOLE purpose of preventing Iraq the ability to manufacture of weapons-grade Uranium. No one screamed bloody-hell over that move. Hell, pre-emptive strike policies are as old as war itself and have proven to be quite successful in quelling what could have been much larger catastrophies later on down the road.
In the REAL world, you don't wait until the enemy has a chance to pull the trigger, especially when you have the ability to eradicte him beforehand. We don't want equality on the battlefield; we want TOTAL domination before, during and after.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
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00 Corvette Coupe
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I'm still confused about this whole "balanced budget by 2005." Anyone here know how many trillions of dollars of deficit we have? We're kind of past the point of using deficit spending as a "political tool." We keep spending money that we don't have, and with an economy that doesn't pick-up in war time, we need to seriously reconsider the goals of attacking the middle east. I think our money could be better spent in intelligence than in large scale military deployments. But if money needs to be spent, when it comes down to it, I'd rather see hundreds of foreigners get killed by bombs, than see any of our guys over there getting shot by soldiers dressed like civilians. So either bring everyone home and pump up the CIA, or put everyone on an aircraft carrier and launch a few billion dollars worth of cruise missiles. We're already over our heads in spending, what's a few more billion?
And as an aside, please don't start rediculous arguments like "It's Bush, not Busch." and name-calling. This only makes a mockery of an otherwise legitimate discussion. (That applies to me too, although I won't take offense if you call me "idiot, ear-face, poopy dum-dum")
Un-Official NE-CEG "I'm the only person I know who likes Contours"-er.
Occifer, I'm drunking I really think!
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You're confusing terms here a bit, I think. A balanced budget means that we aren't deficit spending. Our deficit DEFINITELY isn't measured in trillions; thats' the national debt.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our projected deficit for this year comes around to the tune of $400-500 billion dollars.
Yes, that's a boatload of money, but compare that against our GDP to get the scale things...
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
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ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhweeeeeeeeeeeeee Damn JaTo. I swear every time I read one of your post I just get overwhelmed. You couldn't have put things better. We need to speak on the phone 
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I lower my head in shame. But at least JaTo knows what he's talking about, I think. But I had a good point about name calling, right?  ...Right,...guys?  Huh?  Awww...Whatever...I suck. 
Un-Official NE-CEG "I'm the only person I know who likes Contours"-er.
Occifer, I'm drunking I really think!
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i really wont get to deep into this being that i am tired but i just need to give my 2 cents. a few questions someone might be able to ansnwer this for me 1)how many of you guys have left this country and went to a 3rd world country just to see how many of these people live? 2) why do they hate united states so much(keyword united states not you or i) 3) everything united states is involved in what do it get out of it? there are so many more questions that need to be asked. its disgusting how i hear people all the time arguing about this whole bush thing. there is so much hidden behind our history. we know what we are told. what is it that we don't know? when 9/11 occured where was the president? im sorry but this country dont really care to much about you because if a nuc hits us we are all going to be gone and only a chosen few which are considered "elite" are going to be hiding in a moutain somewhere.don't believe me look into it. i am not going to bash the man(bush) there are few people that i believe would be worst then he is. some of you guys need to think and ask questions don't go by what cnn is telling you. i have traveled alot and i talk to people and many of these countries hate the united states. there is a book out there that spoke alot about this years ago and the man that wrote it got killed by his own people (cia)and guess what??????the book is not available in your local library, they wont even know what it is that you are talking about. if a man that tried to tell you the truth about your beloved country got killed and they tried their best to stop this book from being published and then made sure it would'nt getting into alot of people hands. it just doesnt sound right......look into it guys its a eye opener 
97 zetec/atx
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Originally posted by gods_son:
i really wont get to deep into this being that i am tired but i just need to give my 2 cents.
a few questions someone might be able to ansnwer this for me
1)how many of you guys have left this country and went to a 3rd world country just to see how many of these people live?
2) why do they hate united states so much(keyword united states not you or i)
3) everything united states is involved in what do it get out of it?
there are so many more questions that need to be asked. its disgusting how i hear people all the time arguing about this whole bush thing. there is so much hidden behind our history. we know what we are told. what is it that we don't know? when 9/11 occured where was the president? im sorry but this country dont really care to much about you because if a nuc hits us we are all going to be gone and only a chosen few which are considered "elite" are going to be hiding in a moutain somewhere.don't believe me look into it.
i am not going to bash the man(bush) there are few people that i believe would be worst then he is. some of you guys need to think and ask questions don't go by what cnn is telling you. i have traveled alot and i talk to people and many of these countries hate the united states.
there is a book out there that spoke alot about this years ago and the man that wrote it got killed by his own people (cia)and guess what??????the book is not available in your local library, they wont even know what it is that you are talking about. if a man that tried to tell you the truth about your beloved country got killed and they tried their best to stop this book from being published and then made sure it would'nt getting into alot of people hands. it just doesnt sound right......look into it guys its a eye opener
OOOOKKK that was about as well writen as Molly Ivins article 5 pages earlier.
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Originally posted by JaTo:
Israel knocked out an Iraqi nuclear reactor facility back in the early '80s for the SOLE purpose of preventing Iraq the ability to manufacture of weapons-grade Uranium. No one screamed bloody-hell over that move.
Actually, ironically, at the time the US *did* scream bloody-hell and postponed a shipment of F-16s over the action. Granted, it was well before Hussein apparently lost his mind, but the international community wasn't that chuffed with Israel. The Israelis, to their credit, basically said "yeah, whatever" and it turns out they were right.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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Since this isn't a discussion on the war I'll digress. My sentiments on the rush to war without an accurate assement or acknowledgement of the lack of a real imminent threat from attack by Iraq has been noted. (I'm sure Jato will still mention something on tons of unaccounted for whoopie cushions and the imminent threat of a devastating paintball attack by Iraq anyway but that's his prerogative).  But....this administration has been a resounding failure in post war security in Iraq and short sightedness in a plan, funding, and gaining international support for rebuilding Iraq. And the questions still remain. Has the threat of attack by terrorists (which are affiliated with an organization and not a specific country or gov) really been reduced by the war? The weapons Iraq (supposedly) had have not been found, which means they could already be in the terrorists hands. In addition to that, on top of all the people (extremists) that already hated us there are surely a throng of fence sitters that are now likely to have given into the hate for the US due to our deteriorating international relations. Thank you Mr. Bush. 
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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