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Originally posted by SilverSVT98:
Quote:
This was running extremely lean peaking above 18:1 between 4-5krpm and the rest about 15:1. I need tuned but I have to figure out my problem before I tune it.
Ack your not running your car like that are you? You better drive it easy if you are, and hope you havent hurt anything yet!
As for what the problem could be, how long since you changed your fuel filter? Also, what kind of computer management are you running or are you running an FMU?
I know how it feels to lean out a SC car...it cost me my bottom end.
Cost me my bottom end to. Now I have a new fuel pump to put on as well as figure out what I'm going to do with the bottom end. Only thing it can be is the ecu next. Believe me I've done everything.
2004 Evolution VIII cams-exhaust-tune
315whp 12.7@109
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Well maybe I can help you figure out your problem. My cobra made aout 550 HP at the wheels, so I know how to use up some fuel heh. First off, tell me what you have done to your fuel system. You have a 98 right? Which uses the return fuel system I think? You DID change your fuel filter recently? Next, your fuel pump, How many LPH is it? Also...your intank prefiler might be clogged..thats what leaned out my cobra(gosh damn crappy gas stations) I couldnt figure out where my fuel went..till I dropped my gas tank and removed a black brick that used to be a white prefilter. heh. I see you have 30lb injectors? How have you showed the computer this change? Aftermarket Mass air meter? Or is it that chip..? If your filters arnt clogged, then id bet money its the chip. Id personally ditch the chip UNLESS its tuned ON a dyno WITH a wideband. Dont let anyone tune your car over the phone. If it was tuned on the dyno..and the tuner let you leave with a 18:1..smack him. Then once more for me.  If you want to keep the 30s, and they were calibrated in with the chip, id ditch the chip and buy a Pro-M meter with a SC calibration for 30s(the SC calibration will make you run rich), The factory computer aims for a 14.7/1 A/F. With the rich calibration you should be good to go. Not to mention youd pick up more HP with the Pro-M. Lastly, if you still wanted to be even safer, you could also run an FMU(once agian im assuming the 98s have return fuel systems, ill look at my wife's 98 tomarrow to be sure). Dont let people tell you FMUs are bandaids or hack jobs. They are safe, and they are tunable...though not always ideal. My car...that trapped 133MPH in the 1/4 weighing 3500#s...had an FMU. Ok sorry for posting so much, I know i assumed a lot, but id like to help you sort out your problems. Ive modified, and help modify a few EFI fords. From turbo 2.3s to Supercharged 5.0s. And I dont like seeing people throwing money away to fix a problem if Its something ive delt with.
1993 SVT Cobra, Vortech blown, 11.1@133MPH Street Driven
2000 SVT Lightning
1998 SVT Contour
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Originally posted by SilverSVT98:
Id personally ditch the chip UNLESS its tuned ON a dyno WITH a wideband. Dont let anyone tune your car over the phone. If it was tuned on the dyno..and the tuner let you leave with a 18:1..smack him. Then once more for me.
If you want to keep the 30s, and they were calibrated in with the chip, id ditch the chip and buy a Pro-M meter with a SC calibration for 30s(the SC calibration will make you run rich), The factory computer aims for a 14.7/1 A/F.
With the rich calibration you should be good to go. Not to mention youd pick up more HP with the Pro-M.
Lastly, if you still wanted to be even safer, you could also run an FMU(once agian im assuming the 98s have return fuel systems, ill look at my wife's 98 tomarrow to be sure). Dont let people tell you FMUs are bandaids or hack jobs. They are safe, and they are tunable...though not always ideal.
Well I agreed with you up to then.
After that point you are talking out your bottom side.
Aftermarket MAF's trying to fool the PCM are bandaid fixes. Especially when configured for injectors more then one size larger then the PCM is programmed for.
They end up leaving no tunability for idle, off idle, or cruising.
On top of that you are stuck with "whatever" calibration the MAF was programmed for (we've all seen that hit or miss!) and how it will work with the transfer function programmed into the PCM. Thus again making it much harder to tune.
You could always program the MAF's transfer function into the PCM but then why would you need a MAF that changed injector size in the first place. That would be double redundant since the PCM controls injector slope (high & low).
FMU's with stupidly high fuel rail pressure are also most definitely bandaid fixes.
Over tasking the injectors to forcibly run well past 100% duty cycle will garner erratic fuel flow and poor consistency. The fuel injectors spray pattern is also severely degraded causing poor fuel atomization and more erratic A/F ratios. Not to mention it's just plain harder on the injectors!
Seriously over pressurizing the fuel system and fuel rail is also just asking for early failure and surprise leaks.
Throwing in your "big numbers" does nothing for your credibility when you can't back up why you are stating these things as good ways to "not fix the problem" but just "patch" it.
I've stated some very good information as to why those are considered "bandaid" fixes and why you should definitely not go that route.
What information do you have to say they are not and should be used?
BTW - the PCM doesn't care what the A/F ratio is at WOT. Only under light load situations does the PCM try to keep the A/F ratio at Stoich (~14.7) 
At WOT the PCM just goes off the tables in the PCM and data from a few sensors. Yet another reason to tune the PCM and not use bandaid fixes instead!
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Thanks for the info. I really don't want to get into it now. The reason my car ran lean is because my chip was burned for 30# injectors and my MAF was calibrated for 30# injectors. Stupid I know but I learned. Believe me silver I have everything to make this car perfect but It'll take to next year to find out. Thanks for the opinions.
Brandon
2004 Evolution VIII cams-exhaust-tune
315whp 12.7@109
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First off I did say about FMUs
Quote:
though not always ideal.
There is nothing wrong with FMUs, they are not the best, but there is allways something better. A guy with a tweecer or tuner is also not the best.
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The fuel injectors spray pattern is also severely degraded causing poor fuel atomization and more erratic A/F ratios
This is debatable, I dont have the equipment to test spray pattern myself, what did you use? MM&FF will be testing just that next month, they plan on higher pressure IMPROVING it. So we will pick that discussion up next month. Im interested in seeing the results.
Oh to add, you generalized Injectors...which is silly. Disc style has a harder time with pressure(it distorts above 65PSI), but pintle style are fine with it, from what ive learned, and from conversing with techs at aeromotive(the fuel guys)
Also if you think a mail order chip is safer than an FMU, then we can end this discussion right here lol. Engines die from mail order chips. I actually ignored my own advice on mail order chips and nearly damaged my Lightnings motor.
Quote:
Seriously over pressurizing the fuel system and fuel rail is also just asking for early failure and surprise leaks.
I cant argue with you on that, im new to contours. I only have experience with LT-1 and 5.0 fuel systems, both of which must have superior lines/fittings to the leaking contours lol .
I have NEVER had one leak from higher pressure nor seen one. Of course you cant just put infinit pressure into them, but I had one friend running 100PSI, and he never had a problem.
You are indeed right about tricking the comp with a calibrated Meter, definately not ideal, I didnt want to advise him to buy a 550 dollar tweecer(and input the chart) and a 400 dollar Wide band, which is superior no doubt. Just more expensive.
Quote:
Throwing in your "big numbers" does nothing for your credibility when you can't back up why you are stating these things as good ways to "not fix the problem" but just "patch" it.
Er yeah...Having a high horsepower, blown(17#s! with hyper pistons!) FMU, with a calibated Meter(3 steps above stock)high fuel pressured car doesnt give me any credit in defending that type of setup...er what does then? Oh and my drivability is fine.
I was only trying to help him, not start a debate over something that is impossible to prove 100% either way due to cost versus effect. I gave him cheaper options, I see you run a tweecer, which is probably what you recommend. It also is a great way to handle tuning, but also not the best. The line in cost versus effect is up to the person. DFI with a professional tuner, on a dyno, blows a tweecer out of the water.(oh and the new superchips tuner is supposed to be better also, not released yet, more tunability that is, not better)
Oh and thank you for the WOT information, I honestly didnt know that. Since it meets air to fuel, what does it aim for?
Im going to assume you run a performance shop by the way you talked down to me lol. Since you obviously have first hand experience in leaking fuel lines in the contour, what area is prone to leak, this has me concerned about running a dry nitrous kit on mine.
Last edited by SilverSVT98; 10/19/03 08:02 AM.
1993 SVT Cobra, Vortech blown, 11.1@133MPH Street Driven
2000 SVT Lightning
1998 SVT Contour
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I don't think Demon owns a performance shop but he does have like the fastest N/A 2.5L on here. Both of ya'lls info was very good to read, I like learning bout stuff about cars. 
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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I dumped the fmu because I was running over 100 psi fuel pressure on the 19# injectors. I fixed this with 30# fuel injectors and a chip burned by somebody most definately not just a "mail order" burner. Street Flight did my chip and they know the Contour better than any mail order tuner that I know. 
2004 Evolution VIII cams-exhaust-tune
315whp 12.7@109
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my friends, my brother and I are going to the Dagrove next weekend. my buddy has soem bad blood going on with another guy with a wrx so they are gonna go to the track. my brother wants to run his mercedez to see what it can do. my buddie runs 14 flat with the wrx. with just exhaste.
Experience is the worst teacher; it gives the test before presenting the lesson.
Why do you need the cats when u have dogs 
04 WRX - TOTALED 3-5-05
Previoius Owned: 96 Contour LX with svt kit
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Originally posted by NITROS:
my friends, my brother and I are going to the Dagrove next weekend. my buddy has soem bad blood going on with another guy with a wrx so they are gonna go to the track. my brother wants to run his mercedez to see what it can do. my buddie runs 14 flat with the wrx. with just exhaste.
That's doable if he can drive it like he hates it. A boost controller will get him there too. 16psi MAX for a mostly stock car.
Chris - 2002 WRX with the usual bolt-ons
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Wow! Way to bring up an old post.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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