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BTW,

Daenku, your scholarship is so poor with some of the things you said, you really should research how we make laws in this country. The reason legislators won't give YOU a pledge that YOU find suitable for YOURSELF, is that people in the MAJORITY of the congressional districts have elected men and women who find the Pledge of Allegiance perfectly fine. This is the MAJORITY opinion of the US Congress and its delegates. This is exactly the reason we have an electoral college divided into 435 areas of the same population. It is the best way to determine a true MAJORITY of the nations intentions.

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Originally posted by Andy W.:
And Allah/God forbid we instill some patriotism and allegiance in our children!



If you have "promote" or "instill" patriotism and allegiance, there exists a problem.

Originally posted by 99blacksvt:
It is also ironic that the Pledge was written by a Socialist...



HARDLY ironic. More like EXPECTED.


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Originally posted by 96RedSE5Sp:
to push through an agenda which will wreak more havoc on this country than a dozen Saddam Husseins.



Very well put.


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I would surely disagree with all those who think that this war will promote more terrorist attacks. Where are they? Attacks in Isreal have slowed down (minus the one just yesterday). We are arresting people every week with ties to Al Queda. There was one suicide bombing in Iraq, which the government claims to be military protocall. I am sorry, much like the first Gulf war, the extremly liberal media and politicians have whipped us up into a frenzy. The first Gulf war promised 10's of thousands of Americans dead, reality tells us less than 150. This war promised terrorist attacks on America, 2 weeks into it, nothing thus far. I know how this will work though. Two years down the road when a group doesn't feel the hot breath of the American military machine down its neck, they will attack and succeed. The media and all the far left politicians will say, "see we can trace this back to the war on Iraq..." That is absolutely ludicrious.

Understand that the media is primarily liberal and anti-Bush not anti-war. I say this because when Clinton ordered our troops to Bosnia to liberate people, you did not see the media or Hollywood protesting. The media and Hollywood are very fond of promoting their anti-Bush, excuse me war, rallies and marches. They are proud that they are drawing hundreds, yes hundreds, of people together in civil disobediance. Blocking roads, laying down in front of doorways, and promoting HATE SPEECH. However where is the coverage of the pro-freedom, pro-war, pro-U.S. rallies that are drawing tens of thousands of followers? You know the peaceful, legal demonstrations. You won't see Glenn Beck's rallies for America that drew 12000 freedom loving Americans in Atlanta, but CNN will show you 400 protestors in that same city. Riots incited by, ironically, anti war demonstrators in SanFran got shut down real quick by the media, so as not to blemish their "HOLIER THAN THOU" stance on this war.

I got a great email from my father in law. It showed President Bush and his cabinet,and all of their achievements in college and life, and the experience in foreign affairs that they had accumulated. Then in contrast, showed hollywood's staunchest opponents, and thier mockery of the President's intelligence. Guess what? The President and his cabinet were drastically more educated and qualified to determine public policy for this nation, as not one of the hollywood hotshots had even taken classes in foreign affairs, history, social work, international law, political science, and so on. In fact many had dropped out of college, and a few out of high school. There was not one college graduate in the group, not even the brainchild of the hollywood left Susan Sarandon. I would like to keep it that way. While there are problems in our government, I sure as hell wouldn't give over the reins to the hollywoood policy makers.

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Originally posted by MystiqueSVT:

Realistically, I don't see that happening and I fear...to quote a Japanese Admiral "we have awakened a sleeping giant."





This was quoted initially after a sneak attack against the US by Japan. It was quoted again on 9/11 after a sneak attack on the US by Muslim extremists.


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Originally posted by 96RedSE5Sp:

Its the degradation of our educational system and the increasing inabiity of Americans to think critically which allows charlatans (deleted) to push through an agenda which will wreak more havoc on this country than a dozen Saddam Husseins.




This is the kernal of truth in your post....


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Originally posted by 96RedSE5Sp:

Can anyone tell me why schools have kids pledging allegiance to a flag anyway? I would have no problem pledging alleging to our country or to its ideals. If I had to choose between being loyal to our flag or to our country (there is a difference) I would choose our country and I would want my children to do the same.




Have you ever served in the military?

Our flag respresents our country.

Do you know how many people have fought and died for our country with the flag providing inspiration, pride, honor, courage? It represents a he11 of a lot more than you think. Ever heard of Iwo Jima?

IMHO, veterans and military personnel just have a lot more respect and understanding of how much our flag means.


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Originally posted by 99blacksvt:
BTW,

Daenku, your scholarship is so poor with some of the things you said, you really should research how we make laws in this country. The reason legislators won't give YOU a pledge that YOU find suitable for YOURSELF, is that people in the MAJORITY of the congressional districts have elected men and women who find the Pledge of Allegiance perfectly fine. This is the MAJORITY opinion of the US Congress and its delegates. This is exactly the reason we have an electoral college divided into 435 areas of the same population. It is the best way to determine a true MAJORITY of the nations intentions.




Hah hah!! My scholarship is poor? What do you think the Bill of Rights was all about? Why do you think we have a judicial part of government, and why we have the Senate?

It's all to prevent dictatorship of majority, regardless whether it's local or from another state. Just ask any NRA member. They will tell you that even if the majority decides on something (eg banning guns), doesn't mean it must be correct.

Electoral college is NOT divided equally amongst the population. Electoral college was a step away from popular vote, the direct form of Democracy (MAJORITY opinion). To keep a more populous state from dictator less populous ones.

I have not commented on the religious beliefs of the founding fathers with the exception of the deists statement, because it frankly does not matter. Because when they formed the government they did NOT task it to sustain a certain religious belief in the land. They more specifically forbidded it from doing that.

But since you are so keen to living as the founding fathers, maybe you should become an Amish. Their lifestyle might not be excatly like the founding fathers' (Amish don't have slaves), but pretty close.


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Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
Because that phrase is a throwback to the mindset of the founders of this country.




Do yourself a favor and go back and re-read a copy of the United States Constitution. See how many references you find in this document to "God" or to "Jesus" or to "Christianity".

You may be surprised.

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First of all buddy, the Amish don't vote. I suppose I wouldn't know for sure as I live in Ohio, lol.

Second of all, the congressional districts, on which the electoral college is based, are based on population, equal population. No district is bigger than the other, give or take a couple thousand. The House exists for the Majority, the Senate (who by the way also approved the current Pledge) was a compromise to give the small states (Rhode Island and Connecticut to be precise) equal representation as the large states (Virginia and New York). The Judicial system was set in place to "check" the constitutionality of laws created by the Legislative branch. Funny...how can you deem something unConstitutional if it isn't in the Constitution? Hmmmm, sounds like the Legislative branch is the only one capable of judging the Pledge, our Motto, and other "God references" as they are the only ones who can add to and subtract from the Constitution.

As you are all so fond of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, you find me a seperation of church and state clause. It doesn't exist. I should know, I had to read the whole damn thing.

On a side note, somebody earlier mentioned our national motto, "In God We Trust". That is the original untainted motto from the very beginning, and it comes from the 4th stanza of our National Anthem.

KNOW THE FACTS!!


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