Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Brakes Performance Brake Upgrade

You're talking about modulation, and yes it varies by pad material (primarily).

But how can the pad/rotor interface go to infinite before the tire would normally let it? It's Newton's law. Any torque applied to slowing down the wheel (pad to rotor to wheel to tire) is balanced by the reactive torque coming the other way (road to tire to wheel to rotor). The pad/rotor interface can't go to infinite grip unless the tire is a) at full stop or b) locked and sliding.

That a pad/rotor that spikes this way is difficult to modulate to threshold is not at issue. That this spiking behavior changes the tire's total traction capacity (which, I'll grant, might vary slightly based on elasticity) is still in question, at least for me.

There's still the tires to consider. Put a narrow, hard compound tire on a car, then put a wide, soft compound tire on the same car. Same brakes - Which car stops shorter?

Put better brakes on the narrow, hard compound car. Does it stop better than the car with Stock brakes and soft compound tires?

Tires are the primary conection with the ground, so they are important.

Now brakes. A driver with the same relative skills can stop shorter if the car's brakes are more easily modulated than if less easy. So brakes make a difference too.

There is a previous thread on this that goes a step further. The ABS systems are tuned to stock brakes and tires. There is a possibility of more braking distance by the ABS system with otherwise better than stock components because of the programming mismatch.

ALso, for more fuel in this fire, the suspension and brake geometry can affect braking distance too. Worn struts/shocks can cause the wheel to bounce off the ground, increasing braking distance. So better suspension components, alignment, bushings all contribute to braking distance too.

So, tires, brakes, driver,suspension, ABS system, all contribute to braking distance directly. They all interact with each other.

Wow, post one response citing this GRM article, and look what happens Honestly folks, the CSVT brakes are way better than most cars, and could do the job very effectively with good tires and pads. Unless you are racing, you don't need the huge rotors with six pot aluminum calipers. It will stop your brakes from fading on the track, but for the street (my two cents here) they are pure overkill. Unless you are doing it for looks, which is cool too.

Most of the time the reason for the ever-increasing rotor sizes on production cars is a giant pi$$ing contest: "We have better brakes because our rotors are bigger." As the debate here has shown, it isn't that cut and dried. heck even ford made the concession that swept area was not as important as we might think when they went to the smaller pad on the later CSVTs. Brakes stop just as well, probably even better with the slightly stiffer E1 shock valving.

It also comes back to a personal PHILosophy I hold true to whenever possible: If you buy quality parts, and install them correctly, you can't go wrong.

There is no pissing contest with brakes ouside the supercar realm. The reason brakes are getting bigger in general is because cars are getting heavier every year. Heavier cars need bigger brakes to have the same braking performance as a lighter car with smaller brakes. Now if you take that smaller car and put bigger brakes on it...forget it, what's the point of repeating myself again.

And no, swept area doesn't have a lot to do with it. Hell, a lot of the big brake systems leave a lot of rotor face untouched and it's all good, because the important part is the effective lever provided by the pad against a large-diameter rotor. s

guess I wll sat away from the bat brake rotor and cap upgrades and just stick with better pads and keep my fluid line clean

Originally posted by RogerB:

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The advantage of discs over drums is cooling/fade resistance.

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If I'm experiencing disappointing fade resistance, are my GL rear drums a big part of the problem? I would think not, since I think the great majority of the heat is generated in the front brakes.

You need the SVT caliper bracket and rotor conversion. The bigger rotors will do wonders for keeping the brakes cooler. You must have 15" or bigger factory wheels to clear the bigger rotors. Your spare will not fit on the front wheels with the bigger rotors.