Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Transaxle How many liters of fluid is changed at ATX service

here is some interesting info I found below.



Avoid Incomplete ATX fluid changes
Changing the oil on an ATX involves dropping the ATX oil pan and replacing the mesh filter. Unfortunately this only changes 3.8L of oil with 5L of dirty oil and abrasive particles still remaining in the torque-convertor & gearbox.
To change all 8.8L of oil requires the following procedure: two large 20L buckets, one with 10L of oil, the other empty; hoses to the ATX oil cooler are removed and extended into the empty bucket; the engine is started for 1 second and the hose ejecting oil is left in the empty bucket whilst the now identified oil-intake hose is moved to the bucket containing fresh oil; the engine is restarted and run until only clean oil exits. Two people are required and Dealers do not perform such a service as routine - it must requested. Complete oil changes will greatly extend the life of the ATX.

Well. my experience is that the filters rarely get dirty. Magnets may accumulate some debri but that's it. I do a drain and flush every 15,000-20,000 miles (I know it only gets about 4 quarts) but I use synthetic and this seems to work fine, much less expensive and simple. The Mystique I have does not have a filter by the way or a pan to drop. Pull the plug and the fluid comes out. Do this a few times over a month and you have a full change anyway.

I recently checked into this myself and found that hardly any after market parts houses carry the gasket or filter. I did find the filter at a Napa dealer. This was not so strange since I can only find the termostat at Napa as well.

Only until I got to the dealer and found that they did not even carry the gasket or filter did I ask why? This was when I found out it was a drain and fill system. Yeah I know, I am still learning alot about this puppy! The service manager came out and explained to me how to change the filter. Then asked if I really wanted to do it. He told me that they ask their customers to come in every 30,000 miles to drain the small amount in the case and carry on.

Phillip
Smithville, MS

I recently found out that the ATX Fluid needs to be changed every 12,000 miles.

Check this.

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tranny&Number=22189&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1

Well done Big Jim. Just curious of the several times that My ATX oil has been changed I think that only once, the most recent job by AAMCO, had the fluid in the torque converter been drained. this may be a reason why their are so many ATX failure issues.

Posters and moderators tell me how often have you drained completely the ATX fluid in your ATXs. Be honest please.

well then armtdm you better read thisPrimary Cause of ATX failure

o Insufficiently frequent ATX oil changes & overheating are the primary causes of automatic gearbox failure.
o ATX oil (ATF) should run at 175oF, every 20oF above that halves its lifetime - coolant temperatures quarter its lifetime. The gearbox oil is continually contaminated by the circulation of clutch-pack abrasive particles throughout the gearbox.
o Factory change intervals (600hrs) are too long compared to the high temperature service life (300hrs) of ATX oil.
o In slow moving traffic there is little or no airflow over the tiny factory cooler, and at the same time the thermal input into the ATX oil will be at it's greatest through normal torque-convertor slippage. At a minimum the factory should have implemented a slightly larger cooler with it's own temperature switched fan.
o The CD4E is a poor transmission, the 4EAT/GF4A-EL is a better transmission (fitted to V6s) but both have overheating problems.

Solutions

o Stage-1 - Improve Contaminant Removal
-- Annual ATX fluid changes
The factory specified interval of 2yrs/24,000 miles is too long.
An average speed of 40mph for 24,000 miles requires 600 hours of running, yet ATX gearbox fluid will degrade in GM THOT tests under 300 hours.
Thus the ATX fluid change interval should instead be 1yr/12,000 miles.

A Synthetic ATX fluid is available and withstands higher temperatures, but in view of the abrasive material contamination in ATX gearboxes it is better to use a non-synthetic oil annually than be forced through expense to leave a synthetic oil in for two years: clean oil is best. Clean oil can also markedly improve shifting & fuel economy.

-- Avoid Incomplete ATX fluid changes
Changing the oil on an ATX involves dropping the ATX oil pan and replacing the mesh filter. Unfortunately this only changes 3.8L of oil with 5L of dirty oil and abrasive particles still remaining in the torque-convertor & gearbox.
To change all 8.8L of oil requires the following procedure: two large 20L buckets, one with 10L of oil, the other empty; hoses to the ATX oil cooler are removed and extended into the empty bucket; the engine is started for 1 second and the hose ejecting oil is left in the empty bucket whilst the now identified oil-intake hose is moved to the bucket containing fresh oil; the engine is restarted and run until only clean oil exits. Two people are required and Dealers do not perform such a service as routine - it must requested. Complete oil changes will greatly extend the life of the ATX.

Complete oil changes as per the procedure above are DIYable, with a cost of 30$US versus 2500$US for a gearbox repair they should be considered mandatory.

-- Inline ATX Oil Filter
The mesh filter on the 4EAT ATX oil pan filters only to 200 microns. Inline ATX-specific filters can be fitted which filter down to 50-10 microns and so remove abrasive clutch material as it occurs rather than circulating it around torque-convertor, clutches, valve-body, oil pump. Traditional "spin-on filters" & adapters are available.

The CD4E transmission has a filter, but it is embedded deep inside the transmission for some reason known only to Ford. Thus it is very advisable to buy an external inline oil filter (eg, www.permacool.com) and do a complete fluid change annually. The transmissions are rated only slightly above the US AXOD Taurus transmissions, and so the use of cheapest-brand full-synthetic annually may be advisable since some problems are as much design as overheating related.

o Stage-2 - Improve Thermal Cooling
-- ATX fluid is used for lubrication, hydraulics (1,910 psi), cooling and actual transfer of power to wheels. With power transmission losses of 20% and 120kW available from the engine, up to 24kW largely in the form of heat must be removed by the ATX fluid & a tiny factory ATX cooler.
-- When ATX fluid is overheated or "burnt" it degrades to a brown colour and loses lubrication capability causing rapid transmission wear. Such breakdown of ATX oil through overheating can be sudden, is non-reversible and not readily obvious until catastrophic failure results.


o Oil Cooler Upgrade Choice
-- A) Hayden "Tube-&-Fin" Cooler
Avoid. The several pipe & U-bend tube-&-fin motorhome coolers offer inferior cooling in slow moving traffic, lower fluid flow. They are an old technology compared to even the stock factory oil-cooler. A tube-&-fin cooler must be much larger than the equivalent sandwich-plate cooler which has the disadvantage of reducing airflow through condenser & engine radiator hence factory radiators are of the sandwich plate design: greater cooling in a smaller package.

-- B) Hayden "Sandwich-Plate" Cooler
Appropriate. Brand names Hayden Trucool/Rapidcool. Near factory-grade cooler providing high efficient cooling in a small package to maintain airflow through condenser & coolant radiator.
---- Hayden 7134711, 8" x 11", 3/8"-NPT inlet, cooler, 60$US
---- www.bakerprecision.com/trucool.htm

An alternative brand is B&M Automatic Transmission SuperCooler.

-- C) Setrab, Mocal, Earl "Sandwich-Plate" Cooler
Ideal. Whilst costing more, they are the factory grade solution chosen by marque the world over for their reliability, efficiency & compact size both in production & racing-team use.
---- Setrab # 616-6, 16-row, 4.75" x 13", 6AN fitting, cooler, 101$US
---- Setrab # 619-6, 19-row, 5.75" x 13", 6AN fitting, cooler, 115$US
---- www.bakerprecision.com/setrab.htm



-- D) Setrab, Mocal, Earl "Sandwich-Plate" Cooler with Fan & Thermostat
The real solution. The problem with all coolers is that they requires air to be flowing over the radiator. Crawling along for an hour in summer heat produces least air flow over the radiator when most is needed.

The solution is an oil-cooler with Fan & Thermstat, so making the maintenance of cooled ATX independent of vehicle speed even in stop & go traffic.



-- Smaller Mocal 115mm x 16-row Sandwich-Plate Cooler - 46.82
-- Fan housing for 115mm x 16-row - 20.05
-- Fan 119mm square, 12V - 22.05
-- Electric fan thermostat - 7.00


The cost-benefit is simple: 95.92 versus 1,800.00.
Costing little more than an oil change service, comparable to the many junk automative "improvement" products out there, and also goes a long way to negating the need for 8.8L of costly Synthetic ATX fluid.

-- A UK Supplier of Oil Coolers is www.thinkauto.co.uk.

o Oil Cooler Comparative Sizing:
-- To underline the undersizing of the stock ATX cooler, the Ford 1.8-engine uses a 24" x 4" ATX cooler, whereas the Mazda 2.5-engine ATX cooler is approximately 70% smaller yet must handle a nearly 50% bigger engine with 60% greater torque & thermal dissipation, and an ATX which is known to have overheating problems in itself.

Originally posted by contour_phoenix_when:

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Posters and moderators tell me how often have you drained completely the ATX fluid in your ATXs. Be honest please.

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I changed my ATX fluid at 60,000. Still was red and I didn't notice any large contaminents.