Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications 3.0L Duratec ?Help tracking down the stuttering problem....Long...

What should I do with my vitek wires after I send them back and get a new pair? My mechanic seems to think if they broke once they will break again and I should just toss them or sell them. The vitek customer service guy was extremely helpful and told me that the wires are warrentied for the first year and then it is $40 for the lifetime if you want them replaced, rebraided, new color (for upcoming shows), etc. It sounds like a good deal considering they will look brand new even if they are repaired, but having a good set of wires is what I really want and if these aren't then I guess I will toss the $150 I spent.

Oh and it sounds like I can pick my car up tonight. I will give a driving review as soon as I get a chance.

Also one more question for you guys. I have a SAFC but since I have removed my precats and put in a MIL Eliminator how can the computer adjust when I change the Air/fuel? The computer is recieving a fake signal on the lower banks so wouldn't the computer be unable to adapt when I change things and throw random CEL's when the top one randomly matches the bottom one's voltage?

Later,
Chris

The car runs like a dream now I just picked it up. It is so nice to have a car running like it should. I hope you guys find the problem with your cars. Other thing that I noticed is that another ford (a 3.0L duratec) was in for the same problem and he expects it to be the same thing. He said the ford coils have been getting replaced very often. I know one of you said you checked it but make sure because it will cause the stuttering if it is bad. Your wires could be bad just like mine so check them if you get a chance.

Good luck,
Chris

I have been re-reading all the latest posts so far and we have some great leads. I have had to cancel my ford appointment due to the fact I need my car for travelling field service work way too much lately (bogged). I am DEF going to try the totally pinned secondary idea Warmonger to see what effect it has on my setup since we have been sharing so many common effects. BlackCoog, I am so happy for you. You offer yet another avenue as well. I will purchase another coil pack and wires, in case mine are fried. I have one question BlackCoog, is everything else the same? You mentioned something about the mechanic putting the maf right up to the throttle body or somesuch - was that just for testing? Let me know. Thanks guys. Vee are kicking ass vight.

Warmonger, Hey I have a question. When you tied your 2ndaries open, did you disconnect the actual cable that goes from the IRMC to the lever or did you leave it attached? I am wondering if this if this in effect tells the pcm that the 2ndaries are open and forces fuel enrichment mode - along with the other effects. Just wondering. Thanks!

Don't worry about disconnecting the cable. Just examine the mecanism and you will see the little bar that the spring is attached to. I used a piece of soft steel wire to tie onto that little bar and then tied onto the throttle cable bracket.
It was very simple and took maybe five minutes. The computer will set a CEL, but it doesn't affect anything else. It actually forces them open, and doesn't tell the pcm anything. The only thing the pcm can tell is that they aren't fully closed because there is no longer tension on the cable. You can make the CEL go away if there was a spring attached to the cable.
Good luck, I'm checking this post twice a day hoping to see your results!

warmonger

Hi Tom,

Well, I've been following all along but had nothing more to contribute till now...I tried the tied open secondary thing...didn't work. Actually I thought it made the stuttering worse. I tried a "restricted" air filter...didn't work. I took it to the dealer again just before the warranty ran out...went for a drive and the "tech" says "Oh, that's normal" I says, "How come it didn't do this when it was new?" He says, "Well, I don't know about that, but what you're feeling here is normal" Oh well. I did have them "document" in my folder that I'm still pissed (don't know if thats what he wrote, but thats what I said) about this and if it continues to get worse, I'm bringing it back and I'm gonna want them to pay. Well, they did agree to that...thats something.
I have been wondering about the coil pack and ignition wires fix of BlackCoog after reading the few previous posts...could the coil pack or wires not work very well at a certain point (light accel) but, seem work good at WOT? Doesn't seem logical that they would. Is it reasonable to assume that they are still performing poorly but, its not noticeable with all the ruckus going on at WOT.

Thanks...Ed

EdorFox, you mirror my sentiments exactly down to a T. I have an update. I got the same results as Edor on the secondaries tied, seemed to make it worse. Warmonger, I wanted to confirm one thing. I can be stuttering like a mofo - but if I throw it into neutral with no load, at same rpm and throttle position = BOOM stuttering gone instantly. I ONLY stutter in gear under load. Are you the same way? I am now going to try and get a new ign module and coil pack and new wires. Wtf, why not. I already bought 9mms, but if my pack is messed - it fried em too. Maybe. It worked for BlackCoog, shrug. Hey Coog, is your MaF connected to the throttle body in a stock fashion? One thing for God's honest truth, I am going to get a new O2 bung welded in and get a wide-band 02 put it; run it into cabin to a gauge. This way I can see if I am running lean or rich during the stuttering. If I run rich, its ignition misifre = not enough spark = unburnt fuel. If I run lean, = not enough fuel and too much air = fuel delievery in some fashion. Then I will know for sure. Bleh. More later, as always.

Well guys, thanks for trying it. It has certainly cleared up my stuttering issue.

We have to remember that I am running a 3L now so that certain results aren't going to be the same.
I am out of options now, but I think you guys should go to the dealer and complain everyday until a Ford Representative gets involved.
This assumes that you at least documented it one time in the past while the car was under warranty.
Ask for a Ford Representative to get involved. The only thing I can think of for those of you who have had the stuttering since new is that you will need a pcm recalibration. Be careful what you tell them if you have gutted the pre-cats. In fact, don't tell them!

As far as the ignition coil packs, I can not find any logical reason to think that they are bad if the car performs good at both part/wide open throttle at higher rpm. On our cars, the coils are fired by the computer. All you have to do to check them is measure the resistance across the terminals where the main plug is inserted to the coil packs. The pin on the right where the large purple wire hooks to is the 12volt supply. measure with an ohm-meter between this pin and each of the other pins. You should get between 0.5 and 1.0 ohms. Then you can pull the plug wires (at the coil, not the plug) and measure from terminal to terminal, i.e. 1-5 2-6, 3-5, or whatever pairs are lined up. Anyway, you should see something between 13Kohms and 14Kohms for each coil. If the numbers are not somewhere in those ranges, then replace the coil pack.
If you have two that measure 0.5ohm and 13Kohm and one that reads 2.0ohms and/or something outside of 13-14Kohms, then replace the coil pack as well because the spark would not be balanced.
This should take about 15 minutes to make these measurements, and will save you $ so that you don't have to replace your coils. As far as the wires, just plug the stock wires on and compare.

Good Luck, I will continue to help however I can.

warmonger

It is common for a misfire to only be noticeable under a load.
This indicates one of three things:
1.)a rich condition where too much gas is fouling the plug.
2.)a lean condition with not enough gas for proper combustion.
3.)insufficient spark to ignite the mixture.

It sounds to me like you should pursue the following avenues:
1.) Verify the condition of your ignition coil as I outlined in the above post.
2.) Check the condition of plugs and wires. Look at the plugs to see if one is discolored (lighter ~ lean) (darker = rich). If all the plugs look good and of the same color then there is probably no problem.
3.) Check the resistance on each of your fuel injectors. This may sound funny, but it is obvious that all of them are firing and not plugged up if you are running good at high rpm full throttle. However, if the resistance of one or two injectors is not the same as the other injectors, then at low duty cycles (low "on" times) you will get different amounts of fuel. For example:
If the normal resistance is 14 ohms for the injectors, but you find that injector # 4 is now 10 ohms; then you will be dumping a different amount of fuel in cylinder # 4 at the same duty cyle. It might only be a slight difference, but it could be enough. If the resistance is higher, 16 ohms or so, then at low duty cycles the injector would be less likely to open as effectively.

In the end, if fuel is good, spark is good, and air is good, then you have a pcm or sensor issue.

That should be enough to get you started, Good Luck.

warmonger

I am going to try and stay calm while I say this (Edorfox, this is especially for you).... I FREAGING FIGURED IT OUT I said to myself, "self we must check out the coil in more detail". So I did just that. With the engine at operating temp, I pull the car into the garage and turn it off. I then pull the wires and check the resistance between 1-5, 2-6, 3-4 plug towers on the coil. I see 15.9K ohms on each. I am like WTF, it's max is supposed to be 13.1K ohms and the Chilton book makes no reference as to a difference in resistance with heat. When I let the coil pack cool down, the resistance went all the way back down to 13.5K ohms. There is the heat relationship now that we found with the stuttering. Next, I just so happened to pick up a 99 v6 couger coil-pack for 50.00 at a local junk yard. I checked her out and the resistance was 12.4K ohms between the 3 check points. Plus, on the pins in the plug I was getting .3 ohms as well (I know this is cold but at least it checked out cold). I throw that on along with new 8mm motorsport wires (just for good measure). I start the car up and let her get back to opertaing temp. I then take her out on the road. JEZUZ I say to myself, no more stutter, nothing, notta! I can punch the gas in 5th going ~40 mph and no stutter. I tried every gear going all kinds of speeds, and all kinds of throttle positions! Edorfox, this is the ticket man (if we truly have the same problem and it seems like we do). I LOVE my car now. I really started to think about that coil when BlackCoog mentioned thats what fixed his situation. Warmonger and everyone else, it seems our journey in the land of stutter is coming to a close. BlackCoog, Warmonger, now me, and hopefully Edorfox as well (along with the others who have been following). I will keep checking the post in case anyone has questions. Thanks all!