Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests Excellent Commentary By Buchanan On Our Economy

Ok,

So we have problems. However, WE created these problems. The very people of this nation elected officials that choose to place these "constraints" on our businesses.

So if we cannot compete, we have to take much of the blame ourselves.

It is easy to sit and blame others for difficulty in entering other markets.

It is harder to say, hey didn't we do a lot of this to ourselves?

I don't like the idea that other nations protect their industries with tarrifs. On that part I agree with you.

However, the solution is not for us to close our doors, but to convince others that free and open trade is in the best interest for all involved.

TB
Qualifications: I got A's in all the econ courses I took in college

So Dan, what do YOU suggest we do. Close the borders, shut down foreign trade, suspend all travel for US citizens? Kick out anyone that's not Christian and white?
Pat B. preys on peoples fears to futher his ideals. Sounds like he's got you under his spell..

I never suggested total isolationism. We cannot possibly produce or manufacture everything we need and want. Somethings, whether they be finished goods or raw materials are just not available here.
What would I do? To state a few:
- Have a temporary moratorium on immigration. Our own Census Bureau projections estimate the US population to grow substantially by an additional 120 million people by 2050 , mainly due to immigration and higher immigrant birth rates. Also at the current legal immgration level of 1 million per year, we attain the population equivalent of an entire state like Indiana every six years! Where will all of these people live?
- Enact laws and policies to preserve and encourage investment in domestic industry. Certain strategic industries should be protected, especially those related to national defense.
- Penalize imports that are not manufactured under the same constraints as those made here. Those slave labor camps in China churning out sneakers do not meet our standards for an honest wage rate, environmental laws, etc.
- Re-evaluate trade policies of other nations like Japan to levelize the playing field, especially in the automotive industry.
- Pay the average working man a livable wage rate, wherever he may be. Something higher than the current minimum wage which is below the poverty level.
- Restrict the exportation of domestically developed technology that may give other countries a manufacturing edge. This is one reason how many foreign companies are able to make goods of reasonable quality - at our expense.
- Change the attitude short-sighted, self-gain motivated corporate America and our so-called leaders. How? I got some very good ideas!

Its a very complex problem, that will not be solved overnight. However, we'd better wake up and take action before its too late.

So even those the US has always had an economy based on the best man w/the best idea at the best price wins (look at Henry Ford for example), we should change that because the best man is no longer an American? Gov't should not swoop in to help ailing companies. They should FIX what they are doing wrong, not complain and look for a handout.

Have you been to China to see this or are you basing this on what others tell you? I've been to China recently and toured factories. It's not slave labor. No one is forced to work. Conditions are not inhumane. Certainly no worse than they were here in the US only 50 years ago. Give China a break, they are trying as fast as they can to catch up w/the west without imploding like Russia did. It's called managed growth. And what's w/ "honest wage"? Who determines that? You? Me? Pat B.? The US gained economic might by EXPLOITING workers here for a looong time. I'm not a huge fan of hypocracy.

Um..most of the "Japanese" cars sold in the US are made right here, in the US by US workers. Shut 'em down! We don't need no stinkin' Japs making cars here! :rolleyes:

If you can show me how to do that without impinging on anyone's freedoms, I'd be shocked. If we created and have this "technology" how can it be an "edge" if others have it? Did we forget how it works? Edge implies an upper hand or advantage.

Now there is an idea worth getting behind! I'd love for the business leaders to stop worring about their next quarterly report and think where is the company going to be in the next 5-10 years. Short sighted thinking and getting caught up in economic frenzy for short term gains has resulted in what look to be long term problems.

And I'm spent..

Don't even get me ****ing started on my industry experience!

I agree with the statements about other countries not playing by the same rules and it isn't fair. But you have to get over this trade deficit is bad idea. It simply isn't. I wish I had to time to searc hthe internet to back it up, but you can just as easily do it.

This has already been disproved. You are partially right that if we all start buying forgien products because what we currently produce costs more, then we must learn new skills. I assure you that we won't be flipping burgers as another country could do that cheaper as well. What America has proved in the past and hopfully will in the future is that its business and industry is based on innovation and is dynamic. 40 years ago, did anyone think we would all have computers to almost instantly communicate accross the world? Many US companies led the technology and made a lot of money doing it. Once other companies (read:countries) figured out ways to do things better/faster/cheaper, the original company must add value to the product in the eyes of the consumer. So, either they keep innovating or the company dies. If it dies and 10,000 people get laid off and have to find new jobs, is that bad? No, but they must learn new hopefully more valuable skills in order to raise his own standard of living.

By your reasoning, the value of the US dollar would always go down. Inflation may cause it to go down over time, but the cost of any particular good or service per dollar has not gone down. The value of the USD vs other currency has gone up over time.

I like these two quotes, BTW.
"I don't buy an American widget simply because it is an American widget, any more than I buy a foreign-made widget simply because it is a foreign-made widget."
"If an American made that product great, if someone else makes it, then I guess the American manufacturer needs to try harder next time to earn my business."

Why the hell should I or anyone else give China a break?

Sing the praises for China all you want, it doesn't change the fact that their environmental regulations are not as stringent as the USAs (are they part of the Montreal Protocol? Would the Kyoto Treaty have allowed them to pollute more?), it doesn't change the fact that they have no free press or most of the freedoms we take for granted in this country, it doesn't change the fact that the workers get 50 cents an hour, etc.

It also doesn't change the fact that they are basically a communist country and that communism is a failed economic and social system (even if you get the "right people" in charge).

Not to mention the forced abortions...

Tours of factories aside (did you actually think they were going to show you anything BAD?)..I wouldn't want to live in China. Would you?

Brian

Um, the US has not signed the Kyoto treaty either and we just took a big step BACKWARDS a few months ago when the new environmental laws were passed... we're not perfect either.

There is no free press in China thats for sure. The english channel (China Central TV 9) was not much more than the Propaganda Channel IMHO, as were the english newspapers. Hell, only the tourist floors in the major hotels get CNN. Satelite access in China was severly restricted after the Tieneman Square uprising. But we beam in Radio Free Asia to them, and internet access is everywhere. I was sending messages to CEG when I was in Beijing!

Workers don't make very much money thats for sure. But the basics don't cost very much either. China is growing so fast it makes your head spin. The economic development there is staggering. Shanghai is the biggest most modern city I have EVER been to. The China I visited was not the China of 5 years ago, and it will not be the same 5 years from now either. China could not even feed it's entire population until 1986! Now they can, and they are moving fast in everything else as well. Most people did not have a land line phone 10 years ago- now almost everyone is rockin' Motorola cell phones.
China has learned from the fall of the USSR that you can't switch gears from Communism to Capitalism in one fell swoop without suffering the consequences - crime, unemployment, food shortages, etc.. They are privatizing industry slowly and inviting outside investment with open arms. It's a sure and steady path AWAY from communism.
One of the funny things I noticed while I was there was the way they celebrated two events - the awarding of the 2008 Olympics to Beijing (every kid has the hat or t-shirt) and their admission to the World Trade Orginization. Yup, the same WTO that we and many others protested. And you know what? That's a good thing for us Americans because we can now take China to court over all these economic issues that we have w/China and they HAVE to abide by the courts decision! The US has to do the same thing as we lost in WTO court regarding how corporate taxes are calculated. We didn't want to make the change but our Gov't is FORCED to by the court in a suit brought by the Europeans. We can do the same thing to China now.
Their culture is very different than ours and applying our values to their situation is hard to do. Just as what we do looks real strange to them. Look, I'm not some huge fan of China. I just went on a trip there to check it out. I spent two weeks there traveling around trying to take it all in. One thing I DO know after being there, and this applies to all the extensive international travel I've done, boy do I love being an American and living here in the USA. Nothing beats it. Everyone envy's us. They want to be us. Yet, they all resent us in some way. And we give them reason to. Warts and all though, nothing beats living here. Sorry for the rant, but I just wanted to clarify my position

Thank you, and goodnight.

Maybe if those beer guzling, Tv waching Americans got off their couch once in awhile and tried to innovate and use their abilities more we might not be at the disadvantage you say we are.

As for our "greedy fat-cat corporations"; they are what made us economically great, plain and simple. Without the "greed" (capitalism) our country never would have innovated or delivered on the promise that we showed in the beginning of the industrial age.

Dan, I was not trying to impress you, sorry.

As for the Kosovo statement, if you reread the post you'll see, it wasn't mine, it was your beloved Pat Buchanan's!

No the playing ground is not level, interesting that you seem so concerned for the corporations that earlier you labeled as "greedy fat-cat"s. Which is it that you would like to see rule, capitalism or something else?

The German, Japanese, British (what's left of them anyway) auto worker all have total compensation packages better than their counterparts here in the USA. This has been the case for almost a decade, just ask the UAW. (or might they be fudging the numbers to protect their constituency?!?!)

Please understand and recognize that I do agree with you on a number of points, especially on the issue of immigration.

We should not allow unabated access to our country to those who might destroy it, both intentionally and un-intentionally. We should not allow foreign nationals to come and provide "cheap labor" for companies here, simply because our citizens are less educated and skilled than those foreigners. We should do our own job of teaching and giving our citizens the necessary skill-sets to compete for those jobs. The question has always been, who is going to pay for their educations.

and, as the great american Forest Gump quiped:

That's all I have to say about that.

bye for now

Here's an article about the effects of the steel tariff on American companies:
http://www.detroitnews.com/2002/insiders/0208/01/b01-550906.htm