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It doesn't matter how much oil I or you consume, whether it be a drop or a barrel a day.
The point is oil is overpriced.
If I didn't use ANY oil, that would not change the fact.
Oil is overpriced. Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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I have no life
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Originally posted by elraido:
stop buying mobil 1 oil?  If you guys are complaining about gas, what should I be doing? I drive a minimum of 120 miles a day to and from work. Turn out to be over $100 every two weeks for gas.
Quit work, duh.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Eh. I gotta say, postings complaining about a nebulous "they" getting away with something when it's obvious that most of the general public isn't changing its driving habits by any significant amount just don't carry a lot of weight. I mean, I work with a guy who bought a scooter to commute to save gas, and then upgraded to a real motorcycle. Good for him, saving gas, right?
Then he goes and takes the day off so he can go joyriding.
I don't sweat gas prices because I love to drive. It's a hobby as much as it is a necessity. I don't smoke, I don't drink much, I don't drop a ton of money on DVDs or video games or strip clubs or gambling, and so my $35 every week (on average) goes for entertainment as much as it does for transportation.
And I'd rather it be that the companies that pull the goo out of the ground and turn it into the products that keep my car running make a profit and keep doing what they do (and hopefully keep improving upon the process in the meantime, which means R&D and exploration dollars), instead of folding up their tents and leaving me...all of us...high and dry, or leaving the federal government in charge of pricing and distribution.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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CEG\'er
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My buddy who owns a few gas stations in the DC area explained Exxon's profits to me this way. Each part of the business is treated as a different cost center, each charged with being profitable on their own merits. So R&D/Exploration, Drilling, Refining each tack on their own profits along the way. R&D's markups affect Drilling's costs, who in turn marks up their costs to refining, who in turn again adds their markup. So by the time he's buying the gas for his stations, there is already 5-6 stages where Exxon has padded their profits. Meanwhile he makes all of one penny on a gallon if he's lucky.
Jim H
95 Midnight Blue SE (Sold)
98.5 Silver Frost E1 (Sold)
'04 G35 6MT Sedan (Sold)
'01 Aurora 4.0
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
OPEC controls production aka controls most the cost of a barrel of oil.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/092603C.shtml
Cut production, prices go up. 
1> That thing is more than 3 years old.
2> OPEC has never been effective at controlling the output of even it's own member countries and even worse at controlling the price of oil. OPEC provides suggestions to its' member countries, nothing more. In fact, OPEC production went UP after that announcement you linked to a record of over 30 million barrels just a few months later. They wanted to cut production by 9% and instead it went up some 20%.
But what happened to the price, despite OPEC output increasing by 20%? It still went up. Gas prices doubled, despite the fact that OPEC production went up 20% to record levels of output. Why? Because unless they announce some huge cut in production (and their members actually follow through, which almost never happens because they want to take advantage of the rising prices), OPEC pretty much hasn't a thing to do with the price. All they can do is cause a little short-term run on the market by the speculators (the real controllers of the market), like the one cited in your link. But a couple weeks later, the price comes right back down, which is exactly what happened in the 6 weeks following the September '03 announcement your link is about.
3> OPEC doesn't like high prices. Plain and simple. If they could get them lower they would. They're producing as much as crude as they can, they're revising reserve estimates (almost certainly lying about them in the process), and trying to provide optimistic scenarios to drive the prices down.
Why? Well, what do high oil prices do? They drive us to alternatives. That's certainly not in OPECs best interest. As soon as we no longer need oil the Middle East is 100% useless to us. OPEC wants oil closer to $40, because at that price they maximize their return and practically kill any significant interest in alternative energy.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by The Spelling Nazi:
I said a bike was one option. And if prices got high enough, then yeah, I'd probably start riding a bike for short trips. Rather than focus on one statement I made, how about actually reading the entire post? Change driving habits, motorcycle, bike, carpool, make your own damn bio-diesel. There are a huge number of things you can do to reduce your oil consumption if you really want to. Most people don't want the inconvenience of the responsibility. They'd rather [censored] about it endlessly and whine for the government to step in and regulate another industry.
The point is that your options really aren't practical.
How do you know how much I drive,etc. anyways? For your information I use very little gas, probably less than you do seeing as I mainly drive a four cylinder every day and don't drive far.
Sure I can reduce my oil consumption, but I'm American and I want to drive my cars. And I want gas prices to be reasonable, which if you do some research, you will see that oil is overpriced.
I pay taxes, our government needs to be doing something, otherwise why do we have government?
To protect you from invasion from another country?
Jim T.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats".--H.L. Mencken
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OXYMORON #65 - Liberal Thinker
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1. I know how old it is. Gas was the same then as it is now
2. Ok
3. I was watching a report on TV the other night. It said OPEC cut production at one point, and even influenced non-member countries to cut production, to raise prices. All this information was pulled from OPEC memos. They said that OPEC has the gas prices about $1 more a gallon than they should be.
IDK, but maybe even at $40 a barrel, oil is overpriced. Certainly it's more reasonable than the current cost, but if OPEC, which encompasses most of the major oil producing countries, wants it at that price, then I bet they're making a pretty penny on it. One group controlling of anyone thing is not good. There is little competition in the oil market.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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I personally find it interesting how Exxon/Mobil stations often have the highest prices in town. Yeah, I know someone will say that the price at the pump isn't set by the corp office, but you have to admit when 5 of the top 6 most expensive stations in NYS on gasbuddy are exxon or mobil, something is odd.
Having said that I would love to trade my Escape in on a Diesel, or a Ford Fiesta or one of the many gas saving options we don't have in this country, which is party stifled by our governments asinine (sp?) regulations.
"Bros before Hoes" <-- More men need this mentality.
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Originally posted by ZoomZoom Diva:
OPEC does not set prices, they take them just like everyone else. The current prices are much higher than OPEC would like them to be based on the paranoia of commodities traders and speculators.
Originally posted by sigma:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
OPEC controls production aka controls most the cost of a barrel of oil.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/092603C.shtml
Cut production, prices go up.
1> That thing is more than 3 years old.
2> OPEC has never been effective at controlling the output of even it's own member countries and even worse at controlling the price of oil. OPEC provides suggestions to its' member countries, nothing more. In fact, OPEC production went UP after that announcement you linked to a record of over 30 million barrels just a few months later. They wanted to cut production by 9% and instead it went up some 20%.
But what happened to the price, despite OPEC output increasing by 20%? It still went up. Gas prices doubled, despite the fact that OPEC production went up 20% to record levels of output. Why? Because unless they announce some huge cut in production (and their members actually follow through, which almost never happens because they want to take advantage of the rising prices), OPEC pretty much hasn't a thing to do with the price.
3> OPEC doesn't like high prices. Plain and simple. If they could get them lower they would. They're producing as much as crude as they can, they're revising reserve estimates (almost certainly lying about them in the process), and trying to provide optimistic scenarios to drive the prices down.
Why? Well, what do high oil prices do? They drive us to alternatives. That's certainly not in OPECs best interest. As soon as we no longer need oil the Middle East is 100% useless to us. OPEC wants oil closer to $40, because at that price they maximize their return and practically kill any significant interest in alternative energy.
Finally some people that get it. OPEC is not some evil organization that makes oil prices high. Ever since OPEC kicked out the oil companies that were raping oil producing nations, the oil companies only had one way to make a profit; that is through the refining of the crude oil. It is no wonder that no new refineries have been built in the US since the 70's. While the have record profits they refuse to build new refineries. They say no one wants them in their "backyard," so it costs more to keep the existing ones running at 90%+ capacity. I am sure there are plenty of places that could have new refineries built and not be in someone's "backyard."
This is pure capitalism at its worst: price gouging.
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Quote:
3. I was watching a report on TV the other night. It said OPEC cut production at one point, and even influenced non-member countries to cut production, to raise prices. All this information was pulled from OPEC memos. They said that OPEC has the gas prices about $1 more a gallon than they should be.
Okay. I watched a report on how UFOs circles the USS Theodore Roosevelt (seriously, I did). Could be true. And maybe what you saw was too. You can choose to believe what you'd like we all make choices on what to believe, I'm just saying, based on what I know that OPEC isn't as evil as people want to believe they are. It just doesn't make sense for them to be. Virtually anything on the TV these days paints Big Oil and/or OPEC as being the harbinger of evil thesedays because people want someone to blame because they don't want to blame themselves and their rising energy usage coupled with their own people, as speculators, driving the price up.
High prices increase interest in alternative sources of energy as well as significantly increase investment in alternative, non-OPEC oil that is viable to drill because of higher prices. OPEC memos are freely available. Go back and read what they were doing when gas was $20/barrel, they were trying to increase their quotas to further drive the price down because at less than $20/barrel the output from non-OPEC nations decreased because it cost too much to get out of the ground. They're constantly playing around, and in the grand scheme of things it rarely does much to the price outside of a few weeks because, despite their own desires to cut prices and output or raise prices and output, their member nations tend to do whatever the hell the want to anyhow.
I didn't see anyone trying to help Exxon-Mobil (then seperate companies) or any of the others when oil was just $13/barrel and they couldn't meet their cost of capital. They were hurting pretty bad for a while there when the price of oil was so low. They were basically forced into the mega-mergers in an effort to drive costs down in the face of such cheap oil. But they want to moan when the price of oil goes up and Exxon benefits; no different than some guy being lucky enough to own $10,000 worth of some penny stock that went up 12000% today (and there was probably at least one that did). You've got to take the bad with the good. People want to tax Exxon extra for making so much, but no one was there with handouts when they weren't.
Quote:
IDK, but maybe even at $40 a barrel, oil is overpriced. Certainly it's more reasonable than the current cost, but if OPEC, which encompasses most of the major oil producing countries, wants it at that price, then I bet they're making a pretty penny on it. One group controlling of anyone thing is not good. There is little competition in the oil market.
I think OPEC covers a little less than you think. Not even a majority of oil comes from OPEC. Less than 40% of the world's oil comes from OPEC nations, and less than 20% of the US' oil comes from OPEC nations.
I don't disagree that oil is over-priced. But OPEC is producing more oil now than it ever has, so they're clearly not the problem. Saying that they're controlling production just flies in the face of the facts. You could say that they're not doing enough to further increase supply by drilling more wells, build more infrastructure, and pump even more oil, but then why should they? Not using the capacity they have to artificially control supply is one thing, it's quite another to say that they have some responsibility to increase supply.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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