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Okay, lets start right out and say there's no way Im paying over $1000 to appease the Fascist state of California.

Let's also add that I have no intention of selling my car.

Lets finally say that I'd prefer to be able to smog it.

Now,
Suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Matt

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How about a little more information?

Did you try to smog it and it failed? If so, what are the readings?

Do you believe that it won't pass because of modifications? If so what are they?

Do you believe that it won't pass because the CEL light is on and it has cat monitor codes?

We could use a little help to try to help you.


Jim Johnson 98 SVT 03 Escape Limited
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You beat me to it Big Jim.

Look here to get idea what we're talking about. Basically we need more information to steer you in the right direction. Do you have a CEL? How did you come up with $1000 as the repair amount? More data please.


96 Contour 2.5L 148K ATX rebuilt 2X
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Pulled P0420 and P0430... Cat system below effeciency... Replaced the downsteam O2 sensors... and it's still coming back on...

Oh yeah, the won't do squat with it at all (including take readings for smog) if the CEL is on... So I don't know that specific info.

They seem to both have failed...

The car is not illegally modified in any way (or modified at any way at all really...).

The mechanic said the entire cat system needed to be replaced, which in California speak spells "rape".

It's a 1998 Conour SVT...

Let me know if you need more information.


I came by the figure of $1000+ with $500/cat + labor.


Last edited by w00tiemcw00tieton; 07/15/06 01:18 AM.
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O2 sensors don't cause those codes anyway.

Precats cost $1400 plus labor.

MILS cost $30 or make your own for two bucks with parts from Radio Shack.

Do whatever....

Steve


98 Contour SE Sport 2.5 Duratec ATX The wifey's car 89 Taurus SHO - 246K miles 94 SHO ATX - 190K 1997 F-150 5.4L ATX - The Workhorse 150K. ANY THREAD WITH "OMG" or "WTF" ETC IN THE TITLE WILL BE IGNORED!
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How many miles on the car? After installing the mileliminators, the PCM will not turn on the CELs for P0420 and P0430, those codes were caused by inefficient precats (there are instances when those codes could be caused by other issues). That will get you to a smog test. If it is the begininng of the precats going bad, it might pass the smog test. If it doesn't, then a new main cat ($520 plus labor) will help.

Read this.
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=v6maint&Number=1196893&Forum=v6maint&Words=mileliminators&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=1196753&Search=true#Post1196893

Last edited by Tony2005; 07/15/06 03:54 AM.

"Always do the cheap and easy ones first." 1996 V6 ATX 96K miles
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It has been a reasonably common thing for those to be false codes. It has happened to my car several times. The cats are not bad because it easily passes a smog test with readings near zero.

It has been common enough that Ford has published a TSB to reprogram the PCM for some Contiques (mine not included) that widens the parameters for settig the codes.

First of all, make sure you are up on your maintenance, such things as spark plugs, air filter, oil change, injector cleaning, throttle body cleaning, and possibly the intake cleaning using the vacuum suck method. If there is ANY question about the UPSTREAM oxygen sensors, replace them. Reset the light by disconnecting the battery for about five minutes (or removing fuses 4 and 11 in the fuse panel under the hood) for about 5 minutes. Drive the car long enough to clear the P1000 code (monitors not run) and see how you do on a smog test.

When you take it in for the smog test, get the cats good and hot buy doing some spirited driving for about 15 minutes and get it tested immediately. Don't let it sit and cool down.

You need to understand how those "cat ineffectient" codes are set. The normal operation of the UPSTREAM oxygen sensors is that they switch rapidly from .1 to .9 volts. The oxygen sensor generates a slight voltage in the absense of oxygen. When the exhaust pulse is rich in fuel, it will be lacking oxygen, and the oxygen sensor will read .9 volts. When the exhaust pulse is lean in fuel, there is lots of oxygen, and the oxygen sensor will read .1 volts. During the transition, it can read anything in between. The mixture changes in pulses with the opening and closing of the exhaust valves. After the gases pass through the cat, the pulsations will be dampened or moderated. The cat monitor sensors (the ones you replaced and probably ddn't need to) will switch between rich and lean much slower, nearly not at all. When the downstream sensors switch at nearly the same rate as the upstream sensors, it will set the "cat ineffecient" cat codes. The cat monitor that reads the downstream sensors and compares them to the upstream sensors runs ocassionally according to some algorythem built into the PCM. It is the last monitor to run. It will only run after all others have run and you meet certain driteria for how long you have been driving and so on. It can take several weeks or even days for all the monitors to run.

The cat codes tell you NOTHING about the main cat. The downstream sensors are in front of it so it cannot monitor it. If a tech told you that, he is either igorant of how the system works or he is takingt advantage of you.

If the upstream oxygen sensors are getting old and a little lazy, you can have a false reading since the downstream sensors may nearly match the upstream sensors.

You can also have slightly "sleepy" cats simply because they are dirty, and hence the reason for catching up on maintenance including running injector cleaner through the fuel tank.

Some have cheated the system by adding MIL eliminators. Basically they slow down the DOWNSTREAM sensor switching, fooling the PCM into thnking that the cat is effecient. If the car has clean enough exhaust readings (from the precats working at least somewhat and the main cat working fine) you can keep the check engine light off and pass the test. I don't recommend this, but it is part of the knowledge of how the system works.

See, it helps to tell us the problem. I hope you are now better informed.


Jim Johnson 98 SVT 03 Escape Limited

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