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I'm sure you've all heard of the new volvo engine designed to run on gas alcohol or any combo of the two, and ends up making more hp off the alcohol than the gas. well I was wondering, living in North Dakota we have a lot of push on the use of e85 or other ethanol based products, and alcohol has just as much if not more energy stored in it as gas. anyway to the point, with some reconfiguration, do you think the 2.5 would run, and run strong, using alcohol. I've seen it done to other vehicles both forced induction and naturally aspirated, and with the correct tuning they can usually get more power out of the alcohol than off the gas, especially with the forced induction.
what kind of work do you guys think would have to be done, I'm thinking the fuel, and injection systems should be fine, but will the lubracative (or should I say lack there of) properties of the alcohol present the need to change the lube system in the engine and the possible heat issue (alcohol burns hotter). other than that just some timing and tune issues, maybe new valves because of the lube problems but other than that it does not seem too difficult.
what do you guys think??
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Some Taurus are made for FFV E85. IIRC, they have "special" rubber items (o-rings, etc.) or special gaskets to handle the E85. I would suspect that there (o-rings, gaskets) would be where you would be heading if you wanted to mod the Duratec for that.
Edit. Might be a litlle more than o-rings or gaskets.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/taurus.pdf
Last edited by Tony2005; 02/08/06 02:57 PM.
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."
1996 V6 ATX 96K miles
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do you know what the power ratings on the ffv engines are, I know it takes a really good tune to get them to produce good power off alcohol.
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the general rule of thumb is that you need twice as much ALC as you need gas. so injectors would have to be alot bigger. a fule pump to drowned a golf course. some good flowing heads would help and a really good tune.
thats what i would guess. i do know that it does take twice as much ALC than GAS
i would think after all the hard work the power gains would not be worth it go 3L and turbo.
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Originally posted by skifast87:
the general rule of thumb is that you need twice as much ALC as you need gas. so injectors would have to be alot bigger. a fule pump to drowned a golf course. some good flowing heads would help and a really good tune.
thats what i would guess. i do know that it does take twice as much ALC than GAS
i would think after all the hard work the power gains would not be worth it go 3L and turbo.
hmmmm where did you get your info, the alcohol needs to be injected at a higher pressure to mist better (more along the lines of atomization (vw has been doing this for about a year now, inject at 20,000 psi and atomize it) I would love to get a little power out of it, but that is not the main point, I want to make it so no power is lost and possibly a little gain. o rings, possible valve replacement, possible injector replacement, timing and tune. I think it could work.
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Originally posted by Mac Chicken:
I would love to get a little power out of it, but that is not the main point, I want to make it so no power is lost and possibly a little gain. o rings, possible valve replacement, possible injector replacement, timing and tune. I think it could work.
So what exactly is your reasoning for doing this then? Why go through all the trouble and $$$$?
Mark
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3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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So what exactly is your reasoning for doing this then? Why go through all the trouble and $$$$?
Mark
ethanol is cheap as dirt, in fact it comes out of corn, which comes out of dirt. so the eventual outcome will be savings. that and I'm sure nobody has done it, which would make me the first, on come the revolution lol.
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well yeah its cheep. excpet you gotta wait 6 weeks for the corn to ferment. and that smells like [censored] and then to make enoughf fule for a car. your gonna need a [censored] LOAD OF CORN and a HUGEEEEEEEE STILL. so yeah it would be nice if you had A feild of corn, and combine. not to mention you gotta get alot of paper work and proof for the US goverment so that they know its for your car. its a good idea i just think it would require to much work to keep a constant supply of ALC. however i think it would be sweet if you can get it to run. but i think you are not seeing the total amount of corn. deff keep us posted tho it would be cool
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Originally posted by skifast87:
well yeah its cheep. excpet you gotta wait 6 weeks for the corn to ferment. and that smells like [censored] and then to make enoughf fule for a car. your gonna need a [censored] LOAD OF CORN and a HUGEEEEEEEE STILL. so yeah it would be nice if you had A feild of corn, and combine. not to mention you gotta get alot of paper work and proof for the US goverment so that they know its for your car. its a good idea i just think it would require to much work to keep a constant supply of ALC. however i think it would be sweet if you can get it to run. but i think you are not seeing the total amount of corn. deff keep us posted tho it would be cool
no, no, you're still not getting it, I am not growing and or fermenting the corn, I live in an appartment and do not have a yard of my own and thus no corn growing will occur. north dakota itself grows sooooo much corn it's not even funny, and they even make it into ethanol for me.
btw fermentation for ethanol is not the same as for normal consumable alcohol, if you drank ethanol you would die, fast.
I'm going to do some math homework tonight to figure out the fuel flow needed for the combos of alc and gas and just alc alone. I'll get back to you guys in the morning to see if it would actually work and not blow up the engine.
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Originally posted by skifast87:
well yeah its cheep. excpet you gotta wait 6 weeks for the corn to ferment. and that smells like [censored] and then to make enoughf fule for a car. your gonna need a [censored] LOAD OF CORN and a HUGEEEEEEEE STILL. so yeah it would be nice if you had A feild of corn, and combine. not to mention you gotta get alot of paper work and proof for the US goverment so that they know its for your car. its a good idea i just think it would require to much work to keep a constant supply of ALC. however i think it would be sweet if you can get it to run. but i think you are not seeing the total amount of corn. deff keep us posted tho it would be cool
e-85 is sold all over northern minnesota. and the corn does take about 6 weeks to forment but corn oil take about 6 hours to forment. and when you burn it in your car it doesn't smell like anything but car exhaust. and its not made in a still its refined just like gas. it is cool, it is the future, and we will keep you posted
by the way it burns hot. so put in some colder plugs and you can run it all day long, that is unless you have an older car
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