Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Duratec Performance NITROUS OXIDE USEAGE

GUYS,

I'VE BEEN ASKED TO OFFER HELP AND
INFORMATION BY ONE OF THE OTHER
FORUM MEMBERS MARK WHALEN.

FIRST, YOU CAN CONTACT ME @
VENOMGREG@YAHOO.COM WITH ANY QUESTIONS
ABOUT THE USE OF NITROUS (REGARDLESS
OF BRAND, I PROVIDE FACTUAL HELP, NOT
SALES HYPE OR SCARE TACTICS).

MARK WHALEN WAS THE FIRST (AND AS FAR AS
I KNOW) ONLY ONE OF TWO SVT'S WITH
VENOM'S VCN2000 NITROUS SYSTEM.
THE RESULTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES AS
BOTH THAT I KNOW OF ARE PLEASED WITH
THE GAINS THEY'VE ACHEIVED AND ALSO
THE CONVIENIENT OPERATION AND USE OF
THE SYSTEM.

I'M NOT HERE TO "PIMP" MY LINE, I'M
HERE TO ADVISE ALL INTERESTED IN THE
GENERAL RULES OF USING NITROUS.

I'M GOING TO COVER WHICH TYPE SYSTEMS
OR USED FOR RESPECTIVE APPLICATIONS
TO HELP DISPEL ANY MISINFORMATION.

THERE ARE TWO BASIC "TYPES" OF NITROUS
SYSTEM. ONE BEING "WET", THE OTHER "DRY".

"WET" REFERS TO A SYSTEM USING A
DISTRIBUTION DEVICE (COMMONLY CALLED
THE NOZZLE, OR FROM THE N.O.S. BRAND
"FOGGER NOZZLE") THAT USES THE ENERGY
OF THE EXPANDING NITROUS TO ALSO PULL
FUEL THROUGH THE NOZZLE AND ATOMIZE
IT AS THE NITROUS EXPANDS INTO THE
INTAKE TRACT. THERE ARE REALLY ONLY
A COUPLE OF APPLICATIONS WET SYSTEMS
ARE APPROPRIATE FOR. THE FIRST BEING
CARBURETTED V-8 OR V-6 ENGINES USING
A "PLATE" TYPE DEVICE BENEATH THE
CARBURETOR. THE SECOND BEING DIRECT
PORT INTO EACH INTAKE RUNNER TO ENSURE
CONSISTENT MIXTURE DELIVERY TO EACH
CYLINDER. DIRECT PORT SYSTEMS ARE
COMPICATED, BULKY, REQUIRE TUNING BEFORE
IT'S READY TO RACE, AND REALLY ARE
MEANT FOR PURE RACING APPLICATIONS
DEALING WITH 80+ HP ON 4CYL'S, 150+
ON V-6, AND 175+ ON V-8 APPLCATIONS.
SOME COMPANIES OFFER A SINGLE NOZZLE
WET SYSTEM FOR USE WITH LATE MODEL
FUEL INJECTED APPLICATIONS WHICH IS
VERY RISKY AS THERE IS NO ASSURANCE
OF EVEN FUEL DISPERTION TO EACH
CYLINDER, HOWEVER A SINGLE NOZZLE "WET"
SYSTEM CAN WORK OK ON TURBO OR
SUPERCHARGED ENGINES IF KEPT AT 80HP
OR LOWER. SUPERCHARGED AND TURBO ENGINES
CAN ALSO USE DIRECT PORT BUT IT'S
TRICKY TO TUNE DUE TO BOOST CHANGING
THE FUEL PRESSURE CONSTANTLY.

"DRY" SYSTEMS WERE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED
TO MAKE IT SAFER, EASIER TO INSTALL,
EASIER TO TUNE, ON FUEL INJECTED ENGINES.
"DRY" SYSTEMS CAN BE DONE AS DIRECT
PORT (FOLOWING THE SAME GUIDE LINES
MENTIONED WITH THE DIRECT PORT WET
SYSTEMS) OR AS A SINGLE NOZZLE.
TO CLEAR UP ANY CONFUSION AS TO WHY
A DRY SYSTEM IS BETTER (ON FUEL INJECTED
ANGINES), THINK OF HOW THE MANIFOLD
ON A FUEL INJECTED ENGINE IS DESIGNED.
THE PURPOSE OF THE MANIFOLD IS TO
OPTIMIZE THE AIRFLOW TO MAXIMIZE
CYLINDER FILLING ABILITY OR THE AIR STREAM.
MANIFOLDS FOR DIRECT PORT INJECTION
ENGINES WILL NOT ALLOW ATOMIZED FUEL TO
REACH EACH CYLINDER IN AN EVEN FASHION.
(THAT'S NOT MY OPINION, IT'S A FACT)
"DRY" SYSTEMS (FOR STREET CARS) USE A
SINGLE NOZZLE TO RELEASE NITROUS INTO
THE INTAKE TRACT UPSTREAM OF THE THROTTLE
TO ENSURE COMPLETE EXPANSION PRIOR TO
ENTERING THE MAIN PLENUM. THE FUEL
INJECTORS ARE USED TO DELIVER THE FUEL.
ON DIRECT PORT RACING SYSTEMS, THE
ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS USED TO RUN
THE ENGINE ARE PROGRAMMED TO DELIVER
THE PROPER FUEL VOLUME WHEN TRIGGERED
BY THE NITROUS SYSTEM ACTIVATING. ON
STREET CARS, THIS ISN'T POSSIBLE (WITH
THE FACTORY COMPUTER). THE TREND HAD
BEEN TO USE A DEVICE TO RAISE FUEL
PRESSURE AT THE RAIL TO CAUSE THE
INJECTORS TO DUMP MORE FUEL, IT WORKS
OK BUT STILL LEAVES ALOT TO BE DESIRED.
IT ISN'T EASY TO CHANGE THE TUNE UP AND
KEEP IT RIGHT. ALSO (WHAT THEY DON'T
TELL YOU) RAISING THE FUEL PRESSURE
REDUCES YOUR FUEL PUMPS OUTPUT VOLUME,
WHICH IS BAD WHEN YOU NEED MORE FUEL.
ALSO, EXTRA PRESSURE CASUES ACCELERATED
INJECTOR WEAR AS THE INJECTOR HAS TO
WORK HARDER TO OPEN. TO COMPENSATE
FOR THIS, THE OTHER COMPANIES ADVISE
TO SPEND MORE MONEY (AFTER YOU'VE BOUGHT
THE SYSTEM ASSUMING IT COMES WITH ALL
YOU'LL NEED) ON HI VOLUME FUEL PUMPS
OR "BIGGER" INJECTORS. WHAT HAS BEEN
NEEDED IS SOME TYPE OF TRUE ELECTRONIC
MANAGEMENT FOR THE FUEL SYSTEM WHEN
USING NITROUS. OUR ENGINEER HAS INDEED
DO JUST THIS. BOTH OF THE SYSTEMS OFFERED
BY VENOM HAVE THE DISTINCT ADVANTAGE
OF A COMPUTER DESIGNED TO MANAGE THE
VEHICLE EXISTING FUEL INJECTORS TO A
HIGHER RATE OF FLOW BY ADDING "PULSE
WIDTH" OVER AND AVOBE THE STOCK ECU.
ADDITIONALLY, THE SYSTEMS KNOW WHAT
"LEAN" IS AND SHUT DOWN WELL BEFORE
THE ENGINE WOULD SEE A FUEL RATIO
SO LEAN IT MIGHT CASUE A BACKFIRE
OR "BURN" PARTS IN THE CYLINDER(S)
DUE TO EXCESSIVE COMBUSTION TEMPS
IN COMBINATION WITH AN OVERABUNDANCE
OF OXYGEN.

I KNOW THIS IS A BIT LONG, SO I'LL
WRAP FOR NOW, AND AGAIN ANY QUESTIONS
YOU HAVE EITHER VENOM OR OTHERWISE
DON'T HESITATE TO MAIL ME

(VENOMGREG@YAHOO.COM)

THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST.
VENOM GREG..

VENOM RACING, OF, BY, AND FOR AMERICANS

Welcome Greg! I hope to be one of ther next users of the VCN2000 system soon. Thanks for coming aboard to help out!

I have a few questions.

First, I'm a little confused by your description of a "wet system". My understanding was that additional fuel was "sprayed" in under pressure. Plate systems that I'm familiar with have seperate
gas/fuel "bars". I don't see how "expanding"
nitrous from one bar is going to "pull" extra fuel out of a completely seperate bar in the plenum. I thought thats why these set ups have a fuel solenoid, and are spliced into the cars main fuel supply line, [under pressure]. I thought "fogged" systems mixed gas/fuel together BOTH under pressure just as they were introduced to the cylinder. This is done, I thought, to create a more homogenous mixture than spray bars could achieve. Can you clarify this please?

Other than the added expense, and added tubing installation, wouldn't the "ideal" be a "dry" system, with a discharge nozzle placed in the intake runner for each cylinder, as close to the entry into the head as possible? I'm a little confused how a single nozzle at the throttle body area won't have cylinder to cylinder variations like the "plate types" due to manifold design.

I guess what I'm asking is, how much "expansion" is going on in the manifold at the instant of triggering? Is it so much that the placement of the nozzle is a moot point?

Thanks for coming by to get us up to speed.

Welcome Greg!
good to see you here trying to help people that are interested in nitrous use.
I have ridden in Mark's (Trapps') car and even helped him a bit w/ his install, and I must say I was quite impressed w/ the Venom as a kit. (btw, I may have even talked w/ you at a SEMA show before, but I'm not sure)

oh, and fyi, try to refrain from all caps, it is often used to imply the person typing is yelling, and besides, it can be a bit tough to read.

welcome greg!

i run a zex nitrous system, but whatever, its nice to see someone here to help with our n20 problems, and stuff

Welcome Greg ... now please turn off the CAPS LOCK

Greg,

Do you offer a kit for the 01 F-150 Lightning? If so, can i get 2 bottles (10lb each)? what is the approx cost on a system with 2 bottles?

Hi all:

I have the other Venom system. I have a very busy work schedule and usually don't have much time to make any posts. After seeing Greg's post I had to make time.

First, let me say that this is the best web site I have ever seen on any car. I don't know too much about cars, mechanically speaking. This site has truly opened my eyes, and unfortunately my wallet, to so many different aspects of my car. I thought my car was awesome before my mods. I just took it to Road America in WI. I ran with, even passed cars, WAY more expensive than mine.

I bought my system by calling Greg at Venom directly. He was very helpful and seemed like he was truly excited, and proud of his product. He said no less than four times if I need any help to give him a call. The most impressive thing about my Venom system is the support that I received after it's purchase. My friend and I installed the system together. We did it while we were at work. After we got the system installed it would not pass the O2 test. We tried to tap another O2 sensor. Still nothing: time for tech support. I called Greg the next day and he stayed on the phone with me while I tested various leads with my multi-meter. After exhausting everything, he said to ship the nitrous management control unit: brain, back to him. As it turned out, the brain had a bad O2 reader and they sent me a new one. I dropped it in and the system fired up.

I run it at about 75hp boost. When the system fires it's like someone gave you a solid push from behind! The performance gain is amazing. I have had the system for almost a month and have only used 2 bottles of nitrous. Now that it's chilly I'll be done for the season. The only thing that I might get next year is a bottle pressure gauge and a purge kit.

Also, I would be happy to answer any questions, with my somewhat limited knowledge, on the system. I will try to post some pics on my setup.

P.S. Thanks to Mark for getting the system set up for us. His TPS setting worked great for me.

Josh

Could u please post the address for the website?

basic cost? will it work with atx?