|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Quote:
Agreed. I had the honor or pain(if you ask my pockets) of driving a brand new V6 Accord. That car was worlds above my Passat and old SVT in every category.
Yeah, that new Honda sure is better than that 8 year old Ford. Ford must suck. 
I would certainly hope that a 2005 Accord would have a better interior than an 8 year old Contour. The Accord has gone through 3 generations since the 2nd-gen Contour. Hell, a Kia today has a better interior than the Contour did. Times have changed for all automakers.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,066
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,066 |
Originally posted by aAandHt:
Originally posted by Pete D:
I think one of the "big 3" will have to
1. Be sold to a company from a foreign country (like china) or
2. Go out of business completely
before the UAW and the other "big 3" (more accurately GM and Ford) pull their heads out of their respective asses.
And just watch the economy crumble.
You do realise GM has a big part of the US economy on its back...
GM total revenue is about 2%-3% of total US GDP. If GM disappeared off the face of the earth today, the other automakers would gladly pick up the slack in production.
The US as an economy would be fine.
There's more of a threat to the US economy from the Hurricanes destroying the gulf coast and its oil economy than GM disappearing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 655
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 655 |
FORD:
1) The SUV balloon has burst and those suckers were
profitable, and Ford was relying on them for profit.
2) Ford didn't do enough to keep their cars competitive while
SUV's were selling well.
2) Ford is stuck with UAW wages, benefits and retirements.
The UAW compensation is unreasonable, considering what
these people are acutally doing for a living.
TOYOTA:
1) Toyota never relied singly on SUV's and Trucks to post
profits.
2) Toyota kept improving its cars even while SUV's were
selling like hotcakes.
3) Toyota isn't stuck with high wages, benefits or
retirements, because they actually compensate their
workers in a reasonable manner for the jobs they do.
I wonder why Ford has so many money problems?
Also, I wouldn't touch that Fusion with a 10 foot pole. Every car I've ever seen that was built in Mexico was either a POS because it was a POS car, or it started out being decent and was a POS in three or four years because of their inferior abilities when it comes to building automobiles.
Also, I'm sick of seeing people with "Drive American" bumper stickers on Foci and other "American, but not built here" cars giving me nasty looks as I drive my Toyota. One of them actually said something nasty to me once in a parking lot. I really wanted to whip out my Window sticker and show him where mine said 89% of the parts content of this Toyota is made in America, and this car is assembled in Freemont CA, and then make him take out his window sticker and show me where it said 11% of the parts in this car are made in America, and this car is assembled in Mexico.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 67
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 67 |
The big three suck for several reasons:
In order, IMHO:
1. allowing the unions to negotiate rediculous compensation. Paying a highschool graduate $70k/year + huge benefits to sit on a flaoting chair and use a suspended nut driver to attach a center console somehow seems wrong.
2. relying on outdated product development methodolgy. Only truly uniqe examples break that mold (Ford GT, Pontiac Solstice)
3. Mediocre (some hits, more misses) design and limited resources to content higher quality materials.
4. Quality - Buick did well, so what, how come? same UAW, same OEM designers and engineers. Could it be the owner demographics? This is where I assume NVH means nothing to a dust ball who can't hear anyway and shouldn't be hurling a 3700Lb mass of metal, glass and flamable liquids down the road at 60 while running a stoplight.
5. A lousy dealership experience - although this is true for imports as well to more than a small extent. It also has much to do with dealership owners. Brand A sold by dealer B can be 180 from brand A sold at dealer C.
6. 25% of the people doing 75% of the work at the OEM. Soon to be rectified; through massive headcount reductions with a ripple effect in certain regions like oh, say, the Motor City.
The list goes on and gets considerably more complex.
I think Ford is better poised to ride the storm. They are embracing 'green' just as much as Toyota and more than honda, VW & KIA. Design is improving - F150, Explorer, Mustang, Fusion/Milan, Focus. They just need to lose Jay-I-Give-Myself-a-"B"-Mays and the oh so bland 500. Call the freestyle a draw - it's capable off road and has a decent interior for the price (compared to a Pacifica) but if people don't get in to drive it because the exterior isn't engaging then you've lost the race before it's begun. GM has the ability to learn - refer again to the Solstice, but they are the Exxon Valdez of OEM's - badly wounded and slow to react.
For all of our sakes, I hope the Big 3 can pull out of the tail spin. While GM may be only ~ 2% or 3% of GDP, think about it, they are just ONE automotive company. Imagine if 2 go down, and the ripple effect. Yes growth would be picked up by the remaining manufacturers, but not immediately. Capacity management of the imports is much better, meaning they don't have lots of extra. Huge capitol and time would be required to fill any voids.
It's not the first nor will it be the last loss posted by Ford. Lets hope it's the bottom of the curve and that the Delphi/GM lesson proves to be a model that when applied elswhere presents solutions and positive growth.
signed - A 'George Carlin Rules' Patriot with a sunburn.
'96 Mystique Irish Edition (Black & Tan) V6 5 speed
"Our strategy is basically to kill the insurgents when we come across them."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467 |
Originally posted by sigma:
Quote:
Agreed. I had the honor or pain(if you ask my pockets) of driving a brand new V6 Accord. That car was worlds above my Passat and old SVT in every category.
Yeah, that new Honda sure is better than that 8 year old Ford. Ford must suck.
I would certainly hope that a 2005 Accord would have a better interior than an 8 year old Contour. The Accord has gone through 3 generations since the 2nd-gen Contour. Hell, a Kia today has a better interior than the Contour did. Times have changed for all automakers.
The contour was added, because this CONTOUR.org. To make it fair, that 8yr old Accord was most likely better then my SVT. Happy now?
Now I hate America? That is a new one to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,687
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,687 |
You guys aren't really counting in DC at all are ya'll? First of all, you guys are complaining about the neon dying. The Neon is being replaced by the Caliber, a vehicle with the same engine, similar size, and similar price. Durrr. Jeep is getting the Compass, based on the same platform, and (my favorite) Dodge is getting their own version of the Lancer AND Evo. Also, Stratus and Sebring are being completely redesigned. In addition, the best American sedans on the market are being made at DC at the moment. To top it off, there is a new Challenger coupe in the mix that will be based off of the next-gen LY RWD platform. As I have reiterated time and time again, this decision is based on proven engineering. It is PROVEN that the LX-platform cars sell like hotcakes, so the move to make a mustang-buster coupe on the LY is quite in-line with their policy. Prove me wrong. Oh, and enough with the stupid hybrids already, I'll be laughing in 5 years when all those Prius owners have to buy a prohibitively expensive replacement battery for their little plastic wind-up toy. There would be no need nor want for hybrids if todays cars were lighter and had more efficient engines.
J.T.
2002 Chevrolet Silverado 294ci V8. Custom CAI, headers on the way...
1997 Mercury Mystique Zetec ATX
Deceased February 2006
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 389
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 389 |
Originally posted by Stazi:
...as a matter of fact the last car I bought was a Subaru and my wife bought a Scion.
I'm sorry.
2000 Contour SE
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,163
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,163 |
Originally posted by Tony2005:
And this will only hurt more.
http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw122854_20051020.htm
"Ford estimates that 500,000 customers leave Ford each year because the company has been without an entry midsize sedan since dropping the Contour."
I thought the Fusion was more of a tarus replacement than a contour replacement due mostly to the size of the fusion being closer to the tarus than the contour!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
Three letters that explain why the Big 3 cars are more expensive, less equipped and why the Big 3 are hurting today UAW  Unless they pull their heads out of their collective asses, they will drive themselves out of jobs.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,475
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,475 |
Originally posted by 96RedSE5Sp:
Everyone except GM's Rick Wagoner. He still thinks that gas will eventually go below $2.00 a gallon again. And very recently he stated that the only reason that large SUV sales were down was becuase the American public was waiting for the new line of SUV's from GM.
Oh Pleaase! This is exactly why GM is bleeding billions of dollars right now. Why don't we all suck GM's left nut with Mr. Wagoner? At least he's managed to negotiate the large cut in legacy cost with the UAW.
As for Ford - They are doing much better than GM financially, and I think they are heading in the right direcion with their products. They have Hybrid technology in place, and they are launching much better cars such as the Fusion. Ford could pull through the current situation much less painfully than GM IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
