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Originally posted by 04marauder:
What bothers me somewhat though is that there seems to be a perception that all evangelicals or christians are of the same political persuasions...
Its just not smart to lump all christians as having the same political goals and agendas.
I don't know if that confusion really exists. I personally don't know anyone who confuses the mostly homogenous Evangelical political views with the widely varied views of mainstream Christians.
As far as "the media" goes, what type of event would people attend as Christians that is not right-wing in nature? In other words, is it more common to see people acting politically in the name of Christianity protesting abortion or supporting a gay marriage? 
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Post #19 Originally posted by caltour:
Did I say I think evangelicals should be disenfranchised? No. They get to vote just like everyone else.
Post #53
Originally posted by caltour:
For the same reasons, churches today should restrain themselves from political activity.
What are you saying? That religious Americans can vote but shouldn't be able to organize to promote their views?
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
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Originally posted by Viss1:
Originally posted by 04marauder:
What bothers me somewhat though is that there seems to be a perception that all evangelicals or christians are of the same political persuasions...
Its just not smart to lump all christians as having the same political goals and agendas.
I don't know if that confusion really exists. I personally don't know anyone who confuses the mostly homogenous Evangelical political views with the widely varied views of mainstream Christians.
As far as "the media" goes, what type of event would people attend as Christians that is not right-wing in nature? In other words, is it more common to see people acting politically in the name of Christianity protesting abortion or supporting a gay marriage?
Well, when you hear people referring to the 'megachurches' or 'evangelicals' protesting this or that, it sounds like a generalization about christians. The Religious Right, Moral Majority or Christian Coalition did not speak for all christians. Yeah, they're evangelical and attend mega churches, but there are many of churches with large congregations that you could call evangelical (the Bible calls on all christians to evangelize) and that don't subscribe to these groups' particular kind of rhetoric.
I hope people are able to make distinctions between what we usually see and hear in the media about christians and know that this is just too large a group to pin a specific set of political beliefs on.
It is more common to see people acting politically in the name of Christianity protesting abortion or supporting a gay marriage in the media. That's my point. What you usually don't see or hear alot about though are people acting politically in the name of Christianity on issues such as poverty or who are anti-war. They are out there, they're just not as visible or vocal.
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Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
Originally posted by Nate S:
any site that refers to evolution as the "discredited theory of Darwinian evolution" loses complete respect from me 
Haha...You actually think the "theory of Darwinian evolution" has any truth to it? Show me one bit of evidence that can link us to apes. Show me the missing link. I suppose you could say what all Darwinian theorists say, "It's out there, we just have to find it." Whereas one just has to look around his environment to see the prrof of the immense complexity of everything that only a maker and designer could have created. Do you think a computer could have come from thin air? How about our highway system? Or, how about the encyclopedia Britannica? That's what our bodies are like, but on a much grander scale. The computer, highway system, and the encyclopedia did not just pop out of thin air. Nor did our bodies, as evolutionary theory likes to suggest. Our bodies are too complex to have developed through evolution.
You're not serious...right?  How can you be so ignorant??
Darwinian theorists don't say "it's out there, we just have to find it."
And computers didn't come from thin air! They came from years of research from humans! The same goes for pretty much everything in our society!
Anyone who has studied biology and genetics knows that evolution is pretty much a fact now.
You want a link to apes? We share 90% of our DNA with Baboons! By the way, we did not evolve from monkeys, we have a common ancestor with them, and are their "cousins."
To believe otherwise is just stupidity!
Go read up on genetics and what Darwin discovered before you say that our bodies are "too complex" to come from evolution! Darwin studied birds on the Galapagos islands AS they evolved into different species on the islands, to meet each different ecological system on the island. He observed a change in the shape of their beaks based upon what they ate.
What you're saying makes absolutely no sense! Evolution HAS been proved, and there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of evidence backing it up.
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Gotcha, the point about who attends megachurches is well taken.
To clarify my point about media coverage, attending an anti-abortion rally would be an example of a stereotypical effort of what's done in the name of Christianity. Supporting a gay marriage would not. And historically the former is much more common. Consider the other political events in which people have participated in the name of Christianity, and you have the basis of my comment. I was basically just attempting to address why it seems like media coverage of religiously political events supports the stereotype.
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Originally posted by Nate S:
Anyone who has studied biology and genetics knows that evolution is pretty much a fact now.
No. Anyone who has studied biology and genetics knows that the animal kingdom shares similar composition, with the foundation being DNA. Any 'scientist' who uses this evidence as certain proof of evolution is practicing incredibly bad science.
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Originally posted by Viss1:
Gotcha, the point about who attends megachurches is well taken.
To clarify my point about media coverage, attending an anti-abortion rally would be an example of a stereotypical effort of what's done in the name of Christianity. Supporting a gay marriage would not. And historically the former is much more common. Consider the other political events in which people have participated in the name of Christianity, and you have the basis of my comment. I was basically just attempting to address why it seems like media coverage of religiously political events supports the stereotype.
You know I just realized that I initially misread your comment about christians supporting gay marriage. And I didn't mean to say that christians would appear in the media to support this. But yes as we seem to agree, media coverage of christian values and protests is limited to a few stereotypical hot button issues. At the exclusion of what other less visible christians are doing.
And your question is a good one. Why does the media reinforce these stereotypes? This too is probably another thread all by itself. But anyway, it probably has a lot to do with the resources/money that these churches have, as we have already talked about. They have a vast network of various media and can bombard audiences with their message. This is not only limited to 'christian' media. They are also able to get their messages across in the so called mainstream press without too much difficulty.
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Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
Post #19
Originally posted by caltour:
Did I say I think evangelicals should be disenfranchised? No. They get to vote just like everyone else.
Post #53
Originally posted by caltour:
For the same reasons, churches today should restrain themselves from political activity.
What are you saying? That religious Americans can vote but shouldn't be able to organize to promote their views?
Church members should express their political views through voting (and individual financial contributions), just like the rest of us. They shouldn't form umbrella organizations like the NAE for the purpose of gathering money to influence politics. They should not support initiatives to make their interpretation of christianity the law of the land. They shouldn't lobby for public funding for christian schools, they shouldn't try to get religious displays installed on public property, and they shouldn't try to make kids pray in public schools. They shouldn't seek to blur the line between church and state.
I am not just saying this because I am anti-evangelical (I share their belief in God and their veneration of Jesus. I share many of their values). I am saying this because I have studied history and law, and I am not at all sure our little experiment with democracy could survive an unrestrained application of the power of evangelical churches. Our form of government may collapse into anarchy when the most powerful groups (religious groups, the wealthy elite, or corporations) decide to ditch pluralism and remake the rules to thier liking. You know this is true: if evangelical churches banded together, they could go a long way toward creating Bible Nation. Then we would then have an uncontrollable political and social upheaval in this country, because the rest of us do not want to live in Bible Nation.
Our democracy was never meant to be an unrestrained free-for-all grab for power. It is neither foolproof nor bulletproof. It depends partly on our good faith and consideration for others. The most powerful groups could easily dominate policymaking, and deprive the rest of us of democratic representation. If evangelical churches (or corporations, or the wealthy elite) decide they want to dominate the rest of us, our system may not have strong enough checks and balances to prevent it. Our system has never been tested in the way it is being tested today, and I can't swear to you that it is up to the challenge. This means that groups with extraordinary potential for upsetting the delicate balance of power must exercise voluntary restraint if they care at all about preserving our democracy.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by caltour:
For the same reasons, churches today should restrain themselves from political activity. Democracy is all about letting everyone have equal say.
There is some hypocracy embedded in those statements, no? Unless you don't really believe in democracy.
Originally posted by caltour:
Churches could easily distort and even subvert democracy, as they harness the unique combined power of religious belief, tons of cash, and extensive grass roots organization.
The burden is on the Constitution to protect this country, not on religious groups to do so. The Constitution can, should, and will fight off attacks from groups such as Christian Exodus.
Davo: See my response above to BigMoneyRacing. I think it applies equally to your comments.
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Originally posted by caltour:
You know this is true: if evangelical churches banded together, they could go a long way toward creating Bible Nation. Then we would then have an uncontrollable political and social upheaval in this country, because the rest of us do not want to live in Bible Nation.
if you honestly think this is a threat then you are sadly mistaken. there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of the many christian churches coming together as one super church and changing the face of america.
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