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Originally posted by Bullet:
Originally posted by mbTDI:
Originally posted by Bullet:
You should get a copy of that paper. Sounds like an interesting read.




I have a copy... its awesome.



Can I get a copy?



me too?


00 black/tan svt, #2052 of 2150, born 2/1/00 formerly known as my csvt "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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However, the ability for a woman to be receptive to intercourse even when not fertile is another adaptation to keep the make around to help provide for and protect the offspring. Nature made women able to have sex for reasons other than procreation for the upbringing of offspring.

Anyway, we have mentioned sex outside of marriage. However, I still haven't seen what harm it is for two people in a marriage to explore their sexualities to make it more deeply intimate and pleasurable for both of them.


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The destruction story in the Bible certainly isn't unique, either. I recall a number of African tribal religions having their own version of the "Great Flood", as well as a few Native American religions holding a "Great Flood" story as well.

Past that, many ceremonies and traditions in the Old Testament are blatant carry-overs from other far-older religious doctrines and practices; the act of marriage is certainly one of these...

One could (and I think there is a cadre of scholars out there that do) spend a lifetime comparing and contrasting the similarities and differences between the polytheistic and monotheistic religions that are well-documented.

But, to your question of why Christianity has become one of the most dominant and long-standing religions on the planet:

It's accessibility and the "luck of the draw" that most of the empire-building and colonial powers during the first 2 millenia bought into it's message.

While nowhere as easy as the Lotus Sutra in Buddhism in terms of obtaining guaranteed "Buddhahood" (i.e., salvation), Christianity in it's basic message and teachings bring forth the path to salvation through a fairly easy and easily-understood process that the Western mind had little problem digesting. Outside of digging into the miniscule particulars of worship and bylaws in the Old Testament and strictly running of off the messages in the New Testament, Christianity is fairly straightforward on the KEY concepts of salvation. PLEASE note the emphasis on the word "KEY" here, as entire sects have popped up over one group arguing the more granular theological points that are mostly meaningless to the masses...

I think the one of the greatest "watershed" events was Constantine converting to Christianity in Rome and making it a state-practiced religion. This certainly pushed it into the forefront of attention in the known world. Even though Rome was definitely in decline in the 4th Century, it was still THE world power at the time...

The other, of course, was the Gutenberg printing press and the slew of other presses that popped up in competition. Two guesses as to which particular religious book was the most popularly-printed, but you should only need one.

It was this that helped further spread Christianity, in addition to another important one, the Spanish and Portuguese sailing into the New World bringing forth the mantra of "God, Gold and Glory" to cultures that were totally unprepared for the physical, mental and spiritual onslaught that was to come.

Perhaps if the Chinese hadn't of turned absolutely xenophobic after a few strange omens and events that took place in the early 1400's, Buddhism would have been competing right up against Christianity as a far-flung religion. Islam tried with the Moors, but they only got as far as mid-Spain until they were turned back...

I do take point at the article claiming Jesus wasn't a real person. Roman documents, unless they were forged and at different times do notate that Jesus did actually live and die. I know Tacitus wrote about this and I vaguely recall that a few other Roman historians did as well.

EDIT: Where in the Hell did holycow's posts go? This was in reference to the last one!


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Originally posted by JaTo:
EDIT: Where in the Hell did holycow's posts go? This was in reference to the last one!




I know I was reading it, left to watch the game and came back and it was gone. Must have found something he didnt like and pulled it.


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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
We do some funny things in the name of religion.





You can say that again...and the things that people will do in "the name of God" are ridiculous at times.

Bleh I just realized I'm 8 pages late...damn late nights on the comp. Eh well, the older I get the more religious beliefs I seem to disagree with it seems...

Last edited by ZetecNinja; 06/07/05 07:51 AM.

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Originally posted by JaTo:


While nowhere as easy as the Lotus Sutra in Buddhism in terms of obtaining guaranteed "Buddhahood" (i.e., salvation), Christianity in it's basic message and teachings bring forth the path to salvation through a fairly easy and easily-understood process that the Western mind had little problem digesting.




Yeah, almost TOO easy to digest. How come it's "easily-understood" yet a few people have said that they are "Christian" but not religious. The Christian message actually is having less and less effect on the western world, but is still finding new ones in lands where there's less intellect-based faith and more faith-based intellect. Being self-assuming goes against the Bible, being that we are to be led not LEAD. (Jer 10:23)

Originally posted by holycowSVTpaul:
All the gospels of the New Testatment were written well past the year 100 AD and their authors are quite circumspect. Keep in mind too, there was no "Bible" in the early days of Chrisitanity. What once was considered as canon and doctrine used to be up for debate.




None of the gospels could have been written by or after 100 AD or else something so drastic as Jerusalem being destroyed in 70 AD surely would have been included in at least One book.
They were taught to not think too much of themselves like the Pharisees and scribes who'd proclaim their prominence. Too, they were persecuted for their new beliefs as Jesus warned. Hence their cautious attitude would be justified.
Their bible was dozens of scrolls like our bible but not bound together. Same words same thought as today. It's man who has changed it's true meanings on things like celibacy, homosexuality, and masturbation.


Originally posted by holycowSVTpaul:
What I am saying is, it's really not my business unless it does directly corrupt my children.




No one, in their right mind, chooses harmful consequences which are direct, immediate, and obvious. Imho, if I was to wait for direct attacks on Me or my (theoretical) children , that wouldn't be a proactive way to fight wrong.


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I pulled my posts because I didn't want to start a religious debate. That was never my intention and somebody before accused me of changing the subject as an attack on religion. So I thought twice.

I only addressed those who brought up the religious card because their basis for their morality on sexuality was particularly personal to me and my experience in life. I was raised extremely relgiously and it did affect my thoughts on sexuality to an unhealthy degree. I didn't go looking to throw out the baby with the bathwater in investigating the truth claims of religion but that basically is what happend to me. If anybody needs me to repost any info, please advise.


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Religion DOES need to be lashed over it's attitude on sexuality; the fact that most Western religions have excluded any guidance or education about sex for so long due to the "uncomfortable" nature of the topic is partly to blame for at least some of the stigma that Christians usually receive in today's society.

I'm not saying they need to change doctrine and accept a quarter of the crap that goes on today, but they do need to take a more active role in discussing what sex means as a Christian principle over simply pushing it under the rug and looking at it as a shameful deed or display of love that's not to be discussed outside of the bed that a husband and wife share...

The absolute bombardment of sexual innuendo and messages that permeate mass media today is drowning out ANY message that Christian churches are trying to get out, progressive or stolidly conservative. Ignoring it certainly won't make it go away.


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Originally posted by holycowSVTpaul:
I pulled my posts because I didn't want to start a religious debate. That was never my intention and somebody before accused me of changing the subject as an attack on religion. So I thought twice.

I only addressed those who brought up the religious card because their basis for their morality on sexuality was particularly personal to me and my experience in life. I was raised extremely relgiously and it did affect my thoughts on sexuality to an unhealthy degree. I didn't go looking to throw out the baby with the bathwater in investigating the truth claims of religion but that basically is what happend to me. If anybody needs me to repost any info, please advise.



I wouldn't worry about turning this thread into a religous debate, the title is "when did sex become wrong?" after all.
The people uptight about the subject are only that way because of religion.

btw, I was raised to question religion so it is natural for me. I have great respect for people like you who learned to question as an adult. Kudos


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Originally posted by spgoode:
The people uptight about the subject are only that way because of religion.



Or people's natural reservations about sex are reflected through religion.

Last edited by Davo; 06/07/05 05:30 PM.
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