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Quote:
I think I believe that way because of 2 reasons.
1 - I wouldn't do it if Jesus were standing there next to me.
2 - I believe the Bible is clear that sex should be between man and wife, and that include orgasm, no matter which way it comes about.
I dont think I've gone off the deep end, thats just my belief. I could be wrong but we will never know until we die.
I challenge you to use more intellectual scrutiny with respect to Chrisitanity and the Bible. I am not saying Christians are stupid, per se, but as one who has gone down that path and chucked my intellect, compartmentalized hard issues of faith, and lived with cognitive dissonce, I now am of the firm opinion that one should apply the same standards of truth to religion as they do in their everyday lives. I am not going to debate the positive morals religion has to offer, but if I believe in the principle of faith at all, my standard now is to believe in an intellect-based faith, not a faith-based intellect. Basically what I am suggesting is that the more one digs into the hard matters of faith, the more one will come to the conclusion that Christianity is a myth based religion just like every other cult despite Christianity's worlwide mass appeal. Who the real historical Jesus really was, nobody knows. All the gospels of the New Testatment were written well past the year 100 AD and their authors are quite circumspect. Keep in mind too, there was no "Bible" in the early days of Chrisitanity. What once was considered as canon and doctrine used to be up for debate.
Also another thing to keep in mind, there are also almost no secular writings mentioning a historical Jesus, save two. Both accounts are unders supicion--Including Josephus'writings which is now believed by some to be the insertions by some Christian zealot mentioning Jesus as the Christ.
Why do I challge you do scratch below the surface in matters or religion? Because like a stack of dominos, Christianity is a paradigm that leads you down a path of parochialilsm and in some instances, provincialism. It also breeds intolerance, perpetuates a myth and in some cases is an enemy to truth (think Galileo)--Not to mention unhealthy behaviors and practices. If you want examples, I'll give examples. Celbacy is not doctrinal but arguably an unhealty practice within the Catholic church--Same with teachings on masterbation. Now I am not going to stand on my soap box and preach that masturbation is "OK" but I will say it is nobody's damn business and a personal decision each individual must make on their OWN. And arguably too, masturbation is considered in the medical commnity to be a biologically healthy practice. They say a biologically healthy male needs 500 orgasms a year. Now that estimate may seem high in my opinion but it brings attention to basic biological fact--It's a natural function for a man to release. To say "What would Jesus do?" is not only propersterous, but I do dare suggest that once you learn that Jesus is a mythical figure that sprang out of some obscure Jewish cult in the Middle East, then had the backing of the Roman Empire to advanced Christianity into a world wide religion, the question now really becomes, "What would the fictional character Jesus do?" Now that is truly proposterous. So in my view, practice your "unhealthy" paradigm but it will lead you down a parochial path of interolerance and self loathing for yourself and for others.
You have also need to understand that Christianity has had many years in which to temper itself within the frame work of a secular society. It started in the renaissance. Nobody would think about in these modern ages stoning somebody for adultery. Yet, let me remind you, as Islam is today, Christianity was 1000 years ago. And whackos like that like wrecking planes into skyscapers in the name of Allah.
I truly mean no dispect for devout members of faith because I was once one--To what degree I will not mention.
I too saved myself for marriage, was a virgin when married, had children within wedlock and am a victim of divorce. I was taught that masturbation was wrong and I lived a long time with the self loathing after finding out I married a frigid wife. I also did not want end my marriage nor lose my children. I had NO CHOICE in the matter. No fault divorce and a unilateral decison on the part of my ex caused me to pay child support for 17 yrs of my life an see my kids once every month if I am lucky.
I also am not against divorce either although I do view it as a big scourage on society. I do not think there is anything nobel about being in an unhappy relationship yet "Faithful". So one is faithful, what does it matter if you are unhappy?
I have no easy answers on life. In fact, I'm not sure I have answers. Live is complex. However my code of conduct is to live your life as one who is able to bear the consequences. I base what is "right" and "wrong" on consequences. And I'll admit to a little bit of relative truth there too.
So how does this all tie into sex? Religious morals, right or wrong dictate much of our cultural beliefs. Sex is subject to cultural norms. As one can tell, I am very much a secularist and I thank God for that (forgive the play on words). Thank God we don't live within in a theocracy. Otherwise we would live in a society that does not tolerate minority rights. I've said it before, (although I tend towards conservatism) the evils of conservatism are worse than the evils of liberalism. Under conservatism, the majority does not tolerate homesexuality and kills the fag. Under liberalism, the "decadent" lifestyle is tolerated allowing our children to be corrupted. Which extreme do you fall under? I tend to accept people for who they are, learn tolerance, try to understand, live and let live. That is not to say I believe that homosexuality is a healthy lifestyle. What I am saying is, it's really not my business unless it does directly corrupt my children.
Well, I've given enough food for thought.
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CEG\'er
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy W.: I think the context of premarital sex in the Bible doesn't apply today.
The Bible was written for all peoples in all generations. Not just those who lived 2,000 years ago. And if you believe what you said then one could argue that people today cannot go to Heaven, only those who were around when the Bible was written. That is the flaw with your argument.
Your point of view is no more valid than his.
stock 1998 silver frost SVT E0 #1545 out of 6535
* K&N drop-in air filter
* DMD
* Koni's w/ stock springs
* Autolite double platinum
* Tranny cocktail
* Mobil 1 Snyth Oil @ 60K miles
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Addicted CEG\'er
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ugh... why is this turning into a religion thread??? there was some decent intelligent debate prior to this. 
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone? 
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Well it sounds like you have been through a lot in your life. What you believe is what you believe. If you want to disprove the authenticity of the Bible, go right ahead but it will not affect my faith. If I thought of it the way you do, then I would not believe either. But I would like to think i am smart enough to realize I am not smart enough to figure everything out in life. And that is where my faith in God fills that gap.
- Tim
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Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
ugh... why is this turning into a religion thread??? there was some decent intelligent debate prior to this.
It's next to impossible to discuss something so intertwined with religious beliefs and morals without getting into religion.
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Originally posted by JaTo:
One can debate the meaning of "fornication" and if "pre-marital sex" is a sin till they are blue in the face.
What one CAN'T debate is how the Christian religion as a majority has interpreted the scripture across the ages and how that interpretation has been handed down over the centuries on those topics, as it's been fairly static from what I understand.
Islam is fairly similar in it's disdain for it...
Goes back farther still, IMHO.
Little kiddies gettin' it on became bad when parents were left to raise the spawn of their own offspring.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Originally posted by holycowSVTpaul:
my standard now is to believe in an intellect-based faith, not a faith-based intellect.
Best quote I've seen in a long time.
Quote:
Basically what I am suggesting is that the more one digs into the hard matters of faith, the more one will come to the conclusion that Christianity is a myth based religion just like every other cult despite Christianity's worlwide mass appeal. Who the real historical Jesus really was, nobody knows. All the gospels of the New Testatment were written well past the year 100 AD and their authors are quite circumspect. Keep in mind too, there was no "Bible" in the early days of Chrisitanity. What once was considered as canon and doctrine used to be up for debate.
Also another thing to keep in mind, there are also almost no secular writings mentioning a historical Jesus, save two. Both accounts are unders supicion--Including Josephus'writings which is now believed by some to be the insertions by some Christian zealot mentioning Jesus as the Christ...
To say "What would Jesus do?" is not only propersterous, but I do dare suggest that once you learn that Jesus is a mythical figure that sprang out of some obscure Jewish cult in the Middle East, then had the backing of the Roman Empire to advanced Christianity into a world wide religion, the question now really becomes, "What would the fictional character Jesus do?" ...
You have also need to understand that Christianity has had many years in which to temper itself within the frame work of a secular society. It started in the renaissance.
holycowSVTpaul, I hope you don't mind if I isolate the facts of your post and solicit opinions of the Bible scholars as to the contents...
E0 #36
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I'm sure the Greek, Egyptian and Chinese cultures and even their precursors had norms that somewhat dealt with adolescent or pre-marital sex after a fashion...
...just don't ask me to find anything to back it up. I'm viscously ignorant on the topic.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
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holycowSVTpaul why did you delete your 3 posts you just made. I was reading them!
- Tim
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Originally posted by mbTDI:
Originally posted by Bullet:
You should get a copy of that paper. Sounds like an interesting read.
I have a copy... its awesome.
Can I get a copy?  
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192000 kms...not dead, but I'm not fixing it
White people love Wayne Brady because he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X.
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