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Originally posted by Corbett:
Have you heard of the Deas Sea Scrolls sigma? 
I'm quite educated in theology, so I think that goes without saying, thank you.
Now perhaps you can tell me what a Hebrew version of the Old Testament has anything to do with you quoting from the New Testament.
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Originally posted by neelnug:
Just a simple question. When did sex become evil, wrong, secretive, terrible, etc etc etc. Why is everyone intent on shielding young people from it? Why does the church make it sacred and evil if committed (yea like a crime) before marriage?
You don't have to explain to me the risks of bringing young ones into the world.... but part of the reason that there is such a problem with teenage pregnancy is because it is a hush hush subject. People are more willing to talk about drugs... but SEX.... no way. Im not saying we should be giving 3rd graders porn but they are taught how evil it is before they get to an age to understand it.
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Originally posted by posthuman63t:
Why hasn't anyone blamed the media yet for anything? It's always their fault.
Over here we get some regular and military run channels from Europe... they show stuff that would only be suitable on pay channels. Especially like Fashion TV from France. They have a thing called Midnight Hot... mix runway models with uhh... yeah, you can just imagine.
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Originally posted by Metric System Chris:
Originally posted by Corbett:
The Church makes it sacred and evil because the Bible says it is only to be between and man and woman who are married to each other. Case closed. Thats what the Bible says and that is what most churches go by. It specifically says multiple times in the Bible that sex is not to be done before marriage or outside of marriage. It is called fornication.
Show me some scripture. I dare ya'
He did, and you started doubting the meaning of the word fornication and the accuracy of it's application, so I think that if it was unarguably clear you would find a reason for why the bible isn't relavent or how it doesn't apply now or something.
And just because the word hasn't been around for thousands of years doesn't mean much.
When you translate something you use the best words in your language to describe what is being said in the original language, so I'm guessing -(even though I don't read greek or hebrew)- that whoever translated it used the word fornication because it was the best way to describe premarital sex. Maybe we have a better word now? Maybe I should look up the greek word, but since I can't read greek or hebrew, I'll still have to rely on someone's interpretation and transation.
-Peter
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Quote:
And just because the word hasn't been around for thousands of years doesn't mean much.
When you translate something you use the best words in your language to describe what is being said in the original language, so I'm guessing -(even though I don't read greek or hebrew)- that whoever translated it used the word fornication because it was the best way to describe premarital sex. Maybe we have a better word now? Maybe I should look up the greek word, but since I can't read greek or hebrew, I'll still have to rely on someone's interpretation and transation.
So you rely on what someone else wants to tell you on something as hugely subjective as religion?
Half the modern English translations today don't mention "fornication" where Corbett mentioned it in Gal 5:19 (just to pick one example). They use "whoredom" or "sexual immorality" or just plain don't mention it at all. In Greek the word used was "porneia" which means 'immorality' and is often used in regards to prostitution ("porne" is prostitute in Greek) and has nothing at all to do with pre-marital sex, although one could paint "immorality" with a very broad stroke and fit pre-marital sex into that category if they so desired. One could fit anything into the category of "immorality" if one desired.
Here's some other popular English translations of Gal 5:19 found in various other versions of the Bible used today:
Quote:
When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure
Quote:
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Quote:
And manifest also are the works of the flesh, which are: Adultery, whoredom, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Quote:
Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness,
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the word used most often in the original greek is porneia (early root of pornography) to mean sexual immorality. To understand sexual immorality we must understand morality
mor�·al
Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
to be immoral would be consciously choosing wrong. to be sexually immoral would be consciously choosing what is against your beliefs about sex's place and purpose. If you're a christian, you would be immoral to have sex outside of marriage, either before or after. If you're not christian, well, whatever you want to do is okay, but only by your own standards. What is the point if we are all under our own and only our own standards? We could kill people and be moral by our own standards, that doesn't make it right. On the other hand we could not practice modern medicine and be moral by our own standards, but that doesn't make it wrong. It's an argument that will go on forever, and God and truth-seeking christians will realize that. Argue all you want, I just think there's more to life than birth--------(70 yrs)------------death a.k.a. THE END
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Originally posted by jrlayden:
the word used most often in the original greek is porneia (early root of pornography) to mean sexual immorality. To understand sexual immorality we must understand morality
mor�·al
Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
to be immoral would be consciously choosing wrong. to be sexually immoral would be consciously choosing what is against your beliefs about sex's place and purpose. If you're a christian, you would be immoral to have sex outside of marriage, either before or after. If you're not christian, well, whatever you want to do is okay, but only by your own standards. What is the point if we are all under our own and only our own standards? We could kill people and be moral by our own standards, that doesn't make it right. On the other hand we could not practice modern medicine and be moral by our own standards, but that doesn't make it wrong. It's an argument that will go on forever, and God and truth-seeking christians will realize that. Argue all you want, I just think there's more to life than birth--------(70 yrs)------------death a.k.a. THE END
You're right, regardless of any word used in translation, immorality is subjective unless you have some sort of specific standard, and in this case I hold the bible as my standard, because I believe it.
These days no one wants to be told what's moral or immoral, but the laws of society are based on morals, so it gets interesting.
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Originally posted by Corbett:
Gal 5:19-20
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
NKJV
Eph 5:3-4
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
NKJV
Col 3:5-6
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
NKJV
Gen 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 35:11
11 I Am God Almighty, Be fruitful and Multiply.
if there's one fact that's established about the bible, it is that it's full of contradictions. Humans can't go against their nature forever. It's a losing battle, all it does is create guilt and turmoil.
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Originally posted by Newmadamus:
but if you wait til you are married, and don't cheat, you won't know it's a dud. 
Amen.
I cannot fathom going through adult life abstinent until you are married. I know others including myself can vouch for having bed an absolute knockout only to find there was more fun in the sack with a magazine and bag of chips! 
You gotta try before you buy. But just don't spread the little froggy or end up dying because of it (STD's/AIDS etc.)
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Originally posted by louisw:
Originally posted by Corbett:
Gal 5:19-20
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
NKJV
Eph 5:3-4
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
NKJV
Col 3:5-6
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
NKJV
Gen 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 35:11
11 I Am God Almighty, Be fruitful and Multiply.
if there's one fact that's established about the bible, it is that it's full of contradictions. Humans can't go against their nature forever. It's a losing battle, all it does is create guilt and turmoil.
I think that only having sex with your wife, (and only after your married), AND being fruitful and multiplying and filling the earth do not have to contradict each other.
I do think however that as humans -having a sinful nature- we have to fight against the temtations to fulfill our natural God given desires in ways that God did not intend.
If having sex with anyone anytime is so much more natural and better than marriage, then what the heck have people been getting married for all these years.
Although I have to agree that some people definately act like sex is wrong or something to be ashamed about. I don't think that it's something so intimate and special should be explicitly discussed with all ages, but it is natural, and not sin if done in the way that God intended.
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