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The people unwilling to throw an intake on the car also aren't likely to be concerned about the power difference.
Yes, the intake is "extra money." However, that car at the Nissan dealer next door costs more "extra money" just to get it off the lot. The concept is a fixed price point, not a fixed modification level.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Quote:
The people unwilling to throw an intake on the car also aren't likely to be concerned about the power difference.
Very untrue. Im not going to waste typing an explanation. That statement is statistically completely wrong. Also the difference in power is not a few horsepower or a couple tenths to 60. You are comparing a car that is over a 1 second quicker to 60. 5.9 to 7.0 seconds. Very big difference. Both are well engineered cars.
05 Legacy GT Turbo 5speed
99 SVT GRN/TAN (sold)
06 Ford Explorer EBv8
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Originally posted by svtcarboy:
The people unwilling to throw an intake on the car also aren't likely to be concerned about the power difference.
Wow...just, wow. 
Guess those Mercedes Benz people don't care that their cars come with all the 18-way power seats, lighted cupholders and the finest of Nappa leather when they can just as easily buy a Ford Focus and throw in power seats, lighted cupholders and Nappa leather. Hell, they'll probably save money too! 
Suppose the following conversation commenced at the Nissan dealer, between a sales associate and a customer interested in the Altima 3.5SL/SE here in Savannah, GA:
SA: The interiors of the Altima were completely redesigned for 2005 with upgraded materials and more logically placed controls.
Customer: That's pretty nice.
SA: This car also produces 250 horsepower in V6 guise. That's ten more than the Honda Accord. The Accord also doesn't even offer a manual in their sedan. Further, this car has thirty-one over the best engine you can get in the Mazda 6. That will enable you to squirt in and out of traffic with entertainment if you go with the 5-speed manual, but your fuel economy won't suffer if you're gentle with it. You can also get this car for the same relative price after (insert incentive).
Customer: Sounds like a good deal! I'll take it.
Meanwhile, over at the Mazda dealer...
SA: This is our mainstream sedan here, the Mazda 6. It competes with the Nissan Altima and Honda Accord, among other competitors. This car is also offered in five-door hatchback and station wagon bodystyles if you are not interested in the sedan.
Customer: I'll look at the sedan.
SA: Alright, this car has a pretty well laid out interior with some pretty sporty gauges. It's creased pretty sharp on the outside too.
Customer: Pretty nice looking! (See? I complimented it.)
SA: It comes with a 219 horsepower V6. You can get this with a six-speed automatic or a five-speed manual. The manual is good for little squirts of entertainment. This car is very nimble, however and handles very well due to it's smaller size. Those cars over at Nissan and Honda are bigger and don't fit through the little holes in traffic as well.
Customer: So the Mazda here offers some sharp looks and really great handling and a nice interior. But in return, I get a smaller, slower car for a little less money after (insert incentive)? Where am I going to be able to use the handling advantage around here on public roads? 
No, I'm not biased. I've driven all three cars, and my moral here is that I basically don't see any substantial evidence in the Mazda 6 that elevates it to some spectacular level over the Nissan Altima and Honda Accord. Hell, Nissan has retooled the Altima for 2005 and added the vaunted SE-R, a 350Z with four doors and front drive so to speak. In the meantime, it'll blow the doors right off a Mazda 6, intake or not. And over at Honda, they've since introduced a car that's quicker than the 6, even in it's best performance iteriation, and thanks to the IMA, gets 37 mpg while not even polluting the air it leaves behind for the 6 to sniff on.
So, since our previous poster at the time I viewed this wasn't going to go into detailed explanation, I s'pose I did so for him.
Learn to live with it.
-SAV
Troll. 1997 VW Jetta MkIII GLS 5spd
All hail my appearance on CEG!
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If you're going to use the Altima's best time of 5.9... use the 6's best time of 6.4 (I have never seen a time as slow as 7.0 sec for a MTX 6s).
The normal times I see are 6.3 to 6.4 for the Altima and 6.7-6.8 for the 6... so it really is a few tenths.
I drove all three as well, and was expecting great things from the Altima (and was sorely disappointed in the ride and handling departments). I guess I found the 6 to be significantly better than the Altima and Accord.
The salesman doesn't have to emphasize the smaller size... the car is just as roomy (except front head room), and the Altima is normally about $1000-$1500 more than the 6 in this area.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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as far as straight line performance (mod for mod) the mazda will always lose. if you invest the same in the altima that you would've in the 6s, comparing these cars in the 'go' department is a moot point.
they cost the same $$, i'm not sure what you meant by "extra money" to get it off the lot.
i've driven both cars and the altima felt like it had more interior space to me. other than that and torque the 6s is a perfectly good car. it's stronger in character, style, and control, but will get crushed stop light to stop light against a comparable altima. :P ..unless there's some sharp turns along the way.
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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Originally posted by svtcarboy:
I have never seen a time as slow as 7.0 sec for a MTX 6s.
Take a look here.
The same magazine got a long-term Altima to do 6.3 back in 2002, and you can see that here.
That's the slowest 6 time I've seen, along with the slowest Altima time I've seen.
On the flipside, both cars have also recorded quicker times in the very same magazine in this comparison test.
Altima turned in a 5.95. 6 turned in a 6.67.
That's about as much clarification as I can offer without going out and creating a virtual test drive for the two cars that would be downloadable to all CEG members free of charge. 
-SAV
Troll. 1997 VW Jetta MkIII GLS 5spd
All hail my appearance on CEG!
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Quote:
Where am I going to be able to use the handling advantage around here on public roads?
One could just as easily ask where you use the extra 30 horses from the Altima/Accord on public roads.
And there are a whole lot about "handling" that doesn't include measure skidpad numbers, although the Mazda6 excels in those as well. Steering response and feel, overall driver feedback, prevalence to understeer, stability at high speed, and numerous other items that would probably best fit under the category of "vehicle dynamics". All of these one experiences on a daily basis and one does not need to be at a track to experience the Mazda6s' superiority.
I will grant that the Altima 3.5SE is a lot better than past Altimas in this category. And perhaps the new SE-R, which I have not driven, closes the gap further (at the cost of a lot more money).
On that subject I will once again bring up the price issue. I wonder what you consider to be "a little less money" when referring to the Mazda6. Using just raw Edmunds 2005 TMV prices (so no negotation needed, just an email to the fleet guy) and similarly equipped cars, the Altima is $27,017 amd the Mazda6 is $25,186 -- a difference of almost $2000. Comparing 2004 models, the TMV of the Altima is $25,817 and the Mazda6 is $21,780 -- a difference of over $4,000. These are prices that anyone could get with no effort whatsoever. A shrewd negotiator would do even better, and he'd get further with the Mazda than the Nissan.
Maybe $2,000 - $4,000 is "just a little less" to you, but I consider that a pretty good chunk of change.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
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All your points, yet again as we've been through this before, are valid. If I actually OWNED one of these three vehicles, I'm sure I'd be able to sit here and put up a more worthy argument. Unfortunately, I do not and see no need in furthering my participation in this post other than basic knowledge. However, I'm disappointed it took you this long to find this thread. -SAV
Troll. 1997 VW Jetta MkIII GLS 5spd
All hail my appearance on CEG!
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Quote:
However, I'm disappointed it took you this long to find this thread.
I was just biding my time, waiting for you to show up.
In all fairness you did put forward some good points for the Altima/Accord as well. They are very good cars in their own right and if you want to get from Point A to Point B as long as the line is relatively straight between them, those cars will definitely get you there faster than the Mazda6 will. I regularly rent an Altima (only a 2.5) and it is not a bad ride at all compared to most of the crap I rent. I still yearn to return to my Mazda6 every week though.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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I ended up getting the 05 Alti SE 5spd after considering both cars. I paid 24,881 out the door with leather. Bought it at Universal Nissan, biggest in the US. They put the leather in for me, so I didn't have to get other options I didn't want. The leather is better than factory as my door panels are done also. From factory doors still have cloth. The Altima's trunk is quite a bit bigger. If you go to the 5 door S which has the same space you end up gainging at least 100 pounds in weight. Wouldn't get the 5 door for that reason. I did make a deal on a 6S 5 speed which was my back up if I walked out of the Nissan dealer. I love the Alti, but I'm sure I would have been happy with the Mazda had the deal gone sour.
Scott
Scott
98.5 SE Sport, 5 Spd., Blew up 9/16/04
05 Altima V6 5Spd.
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