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Thanks Demon, that is a good post!
1999 CSVT #545
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Originally posted by CalgarySVT:
The best response I have heard is that the restrictions are cumulative. I disagree.
Then you are alone in this thinking.
Take one 2" exhaust pipe.
Add one muffler. Less flow.
Add one cat. Even less flow.
Add one resonator tip. Even less flow.
Cumulative loss.
Since you claim that the bottleneck is further up, how come cat-bat exhaust such as Borla, Bassani, Bosal, Tru Bendz all show gains?
Originally posted by CalgarySVT:
Thanks Demon, that is a good post!
Is that an admission of incorrect thinking? 
Last edited by SVT PETE; 11/25/04 06:31 AM.
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Originally posted by CalgarySVT:
Originally posted by hetfield:
You've owned the car for not quite three months and you're picking a fight with members who have degrees and certifications in automotive engineering. Those same members have some of the fastest Contours ever. Inflammatory posts will go nowhere in this context.
What are you talking about? Inflammatory is what sense? Picking a fight? It seems I am the one being picked on. I guess an opinion constitutes an insult around here? Now why are YOU attacking me?
i think it is because many people have suggested your thinking was incorrect and have offered good responces as to why, yet you still question those people, and as stated before, many of those people are long time members with degrees in engineering and jobs in the automotive field
I don't think anyone is attacking you, you are explaining your thoughts well but you aren't stopping to consider anyone elses thoughts on the matter ...
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Originally posted by CalgarySVT:
Inflammatory is what sense?
Quote:
waste of time ... This sounds like the same BS that exhaust companies like to spew. ... a waste of money and a recipe for a really gay, boy-racer sounding car.
Originally posted by CalgarySVT:
Now why are YOU attacking me?
I'm not attacking you. I was just trying to point out that the way in which you've presented your thread and subsequent replies will not win this arguement. This thread is an indirect reply to common knowledge put forth by people who are considered some of the most knowledgable about our cars and the above statements appear to me to be an attempt to raise the ire of those people. Also, after having admitted your area of expertise is in an entirely different setup than the CDW27 platform your credibility was harmed. I should also point out that I'm one of those "gay, boy-racers" that had $40 burning a hole in my pocket a couple years ago and had the resonator removed on one of my Contours. No, I didn't pay $100 to have it dyno'ed, nor do I really care.
I certainly respect your wanting to challenge common knowledge, however.
Edit: [tongue in cheek]my girlfriend's going to be pissed tomorrow when I tell her that I'm gay. I'll wait until after Thanksgiving dinner, though  [/tongue in cheek]
Last edited by hetfield; 11/25/04 07:00 AM.
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Originally posted by SVT PETE:
Is that an admission of incorrect thinking?
Yes, to a large degree it is. Demon's response provides the explanation I was looking for. My thinking, and the purpose for posting it, was to get the reasoning behind why, I should say how, the resonator mod increased power on these cars. For example...
Relatively early in the thread I said:
"I agree that Dan's argument has probably alot to do with the correct explanation..." [Dan was discussing cumulative restrictions]"
and further that:
"I will take your word for it that the resonator swap can actually realize power."
I then said:
"If there is power gains then it must be explained by, not flow rate, but perhaps flow characteristics... who knows?"
Demon's discussion relating to turbulence and energy loss is the explanation I was looking for.
Some may be thinking: "So why didn't post this question in another manner?" To that I say, would I have got all this information if I had..........
Anyway, I appreciate all your input.
BTW hetfield, [tongue in cheek] I meant gay as in happy...LOL... 
1999 CSVT #545
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A few of us brought up these points as well, Demon just spelled it out for you and it finally sunk the battleship. If you don't understand this simple knowledge, then I fail to see your "expertise" in any automotive field...whether it be 4 or 6 cylinder... 
99 SVTC, T-Red, #652/2760-12.8.1998
Mother#@%@!* did I sound abstract?
I hope it sounded more confusin than that!
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Your straw analogy is flawed, this being due to the fact that your knowledge of fluid dynamics is limited to drinking thickshakes at McDonalds. Your "crimping" experiments would hold validity for water, which, once again if you had studied fluid dynamics, you would know is vitrually incompressible, so yes, the maximum mass flow will be restricted to maximum velocity at the the smallest diameter. The only problem with this analogy is that exhaust "gases" are VERY compressible, hence flow restrictions reduce mass flow at the point of the restriction, but DO NOT limit mass flow. Hence the more restrictive part of a flow regime does not control the maximum flow in a gaseous, compressible system and restrictions become additive. This is Bernouli's Law. Stick to your law books and don't attempt to argue points that try to reverse the laws of physics, in order to boost your self perceieved ego and standing in this internet community. Alchemy may have been believed in the 14th century, but not here.  I've tried to remain civil in this argument, but I can only take pig-headedness for so long. 
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Originally posted by JonnySVT:
A few of us brought up these points as well, Demon just spelled it out for you and it finally sunk the battleship. If you don't understand this simple knowledge, then I fail to see your "expertise" in any automotive field...whether it be 4 or 6 cylinder...
No, Demon gave an answer that you failed to, you essentially, parrotted the "standard" answer. Who said I had expertise in an automotive field. Building a car that makes it into SCC has nothing to do with that.
Unless you have education in this specific field or professional experience in the area you have no expertise.
I can tell you that it is "simple knowledge" that modifications to cat back system on many cars does not yield palpable power gains.
I was looking for an explanation as to why a mod such as this would yield gains. Demon provided it, you didn't.
1999 CSVT #545
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Originally posted by Stazi:
Stick to your law books and don't attempt to argue points that try to reverse the laws of physics, in order to boost your self perceieved ego and standing in this internet community. Alchemy may have been believed in the 14th century, but not here.
I've tried to remain civil in this argument, but I can only take pig-headedness for so long.
And where, pray tell, are you getting the fact that I was arguing this to satisfy some perverse ego in your "internet community" LOL? I assure you that is not my goal LMFAO. I could care less Stazi, really, it seems it means alot to you, however.
As you have suggested I stick to my profession and not discuss exhaust systems, I suggest you stick to plying the laws of physics (in whatever limited capacity) and not to engaging in discussions in which you insist on missinterpreting the points made.
Frankly, your comment about pig headedness is uncalled for and insulting. Your responses on this thread, generally (up to your last discussion) have been less than helpful and your last minute dig is either a sign of your, up to this point uncertainty, or YOUR quest for glory in this, as you call it, internet community.
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Maybe I'm not being fair to you Calgary, but I'd give you two minutes in the penalty box if it were up to me. That exhaust gasses can be compressed is intuitively obvious. Their compressibility is strongly indicated by how they are also capable of expanding to conform to the volume of their container. That's the flip side of the same coin. Isn't controlled expansion part of how a muffler works? You do know that, don't you?
You picked the poor analogy of water, you pat yourself on the back for being able to argue so well (where's the evidence of that?), you smugly drop mention of your law degree, and you gripe that now you're being picked on. Duh! Maybe your law degree indicates a lot of positives about your attributes/abilities, but it is NOT a free pass to be haughty or over dismissive of others.
Isn't it ironic that often the people who are quickest to acknowledge how much they do NOT know, are those who are the MOST educated? Get a clue and try to more civilly conform to that notion. Ask better questions. Be a better listener. And remember that the witness you want to discount often IS correct.
OK, I'll bite. In what field is your other degree?
MSDS, SHO-shop Y, custom 2.5" catback; xcal2; 63mm TB, K&N 3530; Koni struts, Aussie bar; THaines forks, Quaife, SpecII, UR fly; DMD; Nima UD pullies; Stazi brakes; f&r Pole120 mounts. Just a daily commuter car. Silver '98 SVT E0 #3159
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