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Originally posted by PlatoSVT:
Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
i couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a dumb mother [censored] in this thread.
Mind providing some type of argument, or are you going to just going to mouth off in the corner?
i'll just be mouthing off, thanks. i've learned that nobodies opinion ever gets changed in these types of arguments, so i'll just sit back and watch the people who like to talk. 
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone? 
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Originally posted by Andy W.:
My problem with illegal imigrants is that they don't pay taxes yet take from our society and to many come here to rip off and abuse what we have available.
-Andy
you're right. and millions of them are doing their damnedest(sp?) to get here and have their kids born here. now their are millions of children who are completely legal and soaking up our resources. (schools, ERs, etc..) Cant send them back because they were born here and are legal citizens. In the area where my father lives there are a lot of illgal immigrants. Many of the families will go in on buying a house together. You end up with 3 families living in a 3 bedroom house. This is very common in his area which contributes to the artificially high cost of housing. Dumpy houses costing A LOT of money because there is big demand for them. You cant even find parking on his street because every house has about six cars to it.
A lot of them do work in legit jobs though (not most by far) by way of fake papers or whatever. They pay into taxes but will never see any SS or SDI and such. ALthough they are enjoy the other free services provided by the state. I taught a few years in the suburbs here, outside LA, as well as my mother and sister and wife do. MOST of my students at the school I taught at were children of illegal immigrants. This was true for most of the 2000+ kids in the middle school. BUT, most of them were born here. LA School District has over a million students and the majority of them are Hispanic, and increasing rapidly. They cant keep track of who is illegal or not though but they do keep track of who primarily speaks Spanish at home, or only Spanish. Also, children are offered
free healthcare (federal i think) if they meet the eligibility requirements (income) and free lunch/breakfast too. About 90% of the kids were receiving free lunch, and many of them came to school in shiny new cars. 
PS immigrants from El Salvador are quickly catching up to Mexico, followed by Guatemala.
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
Originally posted by PlatoSVT:
Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
i couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a dumb mother [censored] in this thread.
Mind providing some type of argument, or are you going to just going to mouth off in the corner?
i'll just be mouthing off, thanks. i've learned that nobodies opinion ever gets changed in these types of arguments, so i'll just sit back and watch the people who like to talk.
My opinion's been changed more than once due to good debates on this forum. Just trying to spark a little friendly conversation, just annoys me when people want to stand by and just say worthless crap on the side, yet don't contribute at all.
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Originally posted by PlatoSVT:
My opinion's been changed more than once due to good debates on this forum. Just trying to spark a little friendly conversation, just annoys me when people want to stand by and just say worthless crap on the side, yet don't contribute at all.
then you're probably an exception. and people wishing death upon innocent people is hardly friendly conversation. 
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone?
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Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
and people wishing death upon innocent people is hardly friendly conversation.
Can't disagree with ya there, just trying to get into the immagration v. closing borders topic. Anywho, since we've probably killed this thread, you know where I stand! (at least until someone disproves me  )
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Originally posted by Wien_Sean:
Then what is the point in being an American? What do we get other then [sic] [censored] tax and a system that doesn't give it back. I am mostly talking about services that we pay for that we might never use like Social Security. Why don't I just give up my American citizenship so I can become a EU member. It would make getting a job here A LOT easier and I could still come back and get a job. Yes, that is the solution, instead of dealing with the problem in a meaningful way just make the illigal activity legal.
I agree with most of that, but what does it have to do with Mexican immigration? Our entitlement programs are going to collapse in 15-20 years and you're right, we're not getting dick out of Social Security. Open the borders, though, and it would be a lot easier to tax the immigrants' pay.
There's a lot of related issues one could bring up, here: A few years ago there was a stink when a girl came here from Peru, legally, to recieve an organ transplant. Her family didn't have the money, she was going to croak, but finally some doctors agreed to do it pro bono. The kicker was that if she'd come here illegally, she would have been eligible for Medicaid but seeing as her parents went to the consulate and did it all the right way, (soup Nazi voice) no tax money for you!
Originally posted by PackRat:
You sure can tell who lives along the border and who lives a comfortable buffer zone away.
I thought this was a fair point at first, but wait: I live in Plano, IL! We've got TONS of Mexican illegals here! I haven't heard any complaints about them stealing jobs from American citizens, either...
Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
Don't dismiss a "half-assed" approach out of hand - there are a lot of countries that allow itinerant labor into the country for short periods - usually associated with a picking season, for example.
Good compromise idea, and this wasn't what I meant when I said "half-assed." I meant, "Okay, you're an illegal alien, you should be sent back, but we're going to cut you in on our government give-away programs and issue you a drivers' license anyway. Technically you could still be sent back, though..."  Again, good idea on the seasonal immigration thing...
To close and to answer a few of svt4stv's points, I'll just regurgiate this: http://www.amadan.org/blog/archives/000084.html . He says it better than I ever could.
--T.J.
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Quote:
So that is a deep and endemic problem, and it's not going to be solved by more wetback roundups and more patrols at the border.
when someone writes a political opinion and publishes it publicly, using derrogatory language does little to boost their credibility.
that being said, i agree with most of what was said, BUT
Quote:
The number of U.S. citizens born each year to illegal/temporary immigrants is not that great.
is pure BS. i dont know where this guy gets his information but i have seen the numbers, and the real thing, to the contrary. i have gone to district ESL meetings that have posted the numbers and their rise in the past 20 years. I dont know where thay guy lives but you can ask just about any CEGer in here who lives in an area where there is vast illegal immigration of Latinos (LA, San Diego, parts of Texas, New Mexcio?, Arizona, etc..) they can tell you that these immigrants are having children at rapid rates. My father and grandfather used to have a general contractor/handman business going and used to pick up illegals every now and then to help when doing a roof job, or a driveway, or whatever. I have had many actual discussions with them while riding in the truck with them (when i was a teen and helping out) and learned that most of them do have kids and most were born here. of course, why not. it guarantees citizenship, so their children wont have to go through the same struggles as they did/do (at least not that one anyway). They actually instituted a ban on contractors picking up illegals in front of Home Depot and such by way of confiscating their trucks. It died down for awhile but its back in full force. Contractors need them for the grunt jobs that no "regular Joe" will do for $5 an hour, sometimes less/more.
I see illegals all the time with many kids in tow. I see them at the park, at the schools, in the markets. They have many kids even though they can barely afford them. This is for various reasons: lack of money/insurance to pay for birth control, most mexians and such are catholic who vehemently dont believe in birth control, or they are seriously uneducated and dont know any better.
That author's notion of "helping pay into the system" doesnt wash with me because how do you pay into a system if youre not working? there are plenty of people in this country who are unemployed and those who are shown in statistics typically dont include illegal aliens because they are "underground". Not to mention MANY work for cash pay as well.
I worked in CA's disasterous workers compensation field for a few years. and my aunt and uncle did too (got me into it). my uncle (retired) was an executive manager for an insurance company. I adjusted claims for the State Fund, a quasi-state insurance company. Years ago, the word got out that word was spreading like wildfire in the illegal community that you could receive WC benefits even if youre a day laborer. Per CA law, you could be on the job for 5 minutes, get hurt, and
receive bi-weekly payments, which cause the employer's premiums to go up. WC claims from illegals skyrocketed! I had a claim where a moving company (transfer and storage) had to move some heavy stuff. some workers called in sick and what not so the supervisor decides to hire some day laborers to help out (one day job). while carrying a water-heater up the stairs one day laborer claimed he strained his back. he didnt tell the boss or anyone until later when i received a letter from his attorney. The employer called me up and said "we're not paying for that right? he's not even our employee. he only worked with us a few hours." i told her that, per law, he was now an employee and entitled to benefits. he has a doctor (the problem with the entire system btw) who says he cannot work and needs therapy and medication and possibly surgery.
this is a MINOR example of the hundreds of cases i alone had.
This is one aspect of them draining services that rarely gets mentioned. Cases are settled everyday that result in hundreds of thousands of dollar payouts. Some deserve it, some dont. But it costs....
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by TJSwoboda:
Originally posted by PackRat:
You sure can tell who lives along the border and who lives a comfortable buffer zone away.
I thought this was a fair point at first, but wait: I live in Plano, IL! We've got TONS of Mexican illegals here! I haven't heard any complaints about them stealing jobs from American citizens, either...
If you have tons, start calling the INS.
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Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
Originally posted by PlatoSVT:
My opinion's been changed more than once due to good debates on this forum. Just trying to spark a little friendly conversation, just annoys me when people want to stand by and just say worthless crap on the side, yet don't contribute at all.
then you're probably an exception. and people wishing death upon innocent people is hardly friendly conversation.
Thank you!!! Wishing people dead, only proves how [censored] up people in our scocity can be.... And thats one of the points i was trying to get across....
eveything else (about illegal immigration) i agree with Pack Rat and Hitman (thats a first), and say something needs to be done. not sure what, but there needs to be drastic changes.
And my mother being an immigrant, and now haveing her citizenship (after fighting to get it for so long), she also feels that illegal immigrants shadow the leagal ones and the ones that respect this country....she too agrees that somthing needs to be done.
Lupe
Last edited by Roz 1999 SVT-C; 10/19/04 10:52 PM.
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
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WOW I'm kind of floored by the degree of ignorance and heartlessness being shown here. Every life lost is a life loss.
Many people here sound like nothing but a bunch of rats on a sinking ship, scratching, clawing and chewing at each other to be on top of the heap.
Unless you are a REAL AMERICAN (indigenous) you or your ancestors immigrated. You folks talking all the 'close the border sh!t' are lucky the boats and planes that brought your ancestors here didn't sink/crash, But the Real Americans AREN'T. They got ran/shipped/carted off. Happy for your mom getting naturalized. I think we could be much better neighbors to the south.
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